Discoqueen
Dang tootin
Daniel of Pain of Salvation (used to be metal, anyhow!)
Cutest boys in metal
- Thread starter JohnIce
- Start date
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Daniel of Pain of Salvation (used to be metal, anyhow!)
This site may earn a commission from merchant links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
Chokey Chicken
mouth breather
If it were in fact "that easy" to get ahead, every hot female musician would be famous. You're pretty much disgusting if you legitimately think it's easier for women for the reasons given. I'm just going to abandon this thread because they always go nowhere.
Necris
Bonitis.
Colleen McCullough: we'll celebrate a woman for anything, as long as it's not her talent | Rebecca Shaw | Comment is free | The Guardian
Here's an example of a woman who has achieved quite a bit in her life (being a Neuroscientist, a best selling author, recipient of the order of Australia etc) and in her obituary published by a paper those achievements were downplayed and the focus turned instead to her looks and her ability to attract men.
JohnIce
Singlecoil Enthusiast
How is that relevant in any way to what I said?
There are plenty of reasons anybody could have for not liking In This Moment just like with any other band, poppy sounding songs and pretentious showmanship for example, but that's not the reasons I'm talking about. I'm talking only about sexist reasons for disliking In This Moment. The difference is a big one, and integral to this discussion. I don't see how your friend comes across as a sexist for saying that stuff, do you?Regardless, there's over 3,5 billion women in the world. What your one female friend thinks doesn't really hold any weight in a discussion like this. It's also worth remembering that there are a LOT of women who know nothing about gender equality and have no ambitions to learn about it. Women are not experts on sexism by default. So yes, I was portraying male metalheads because that's the far more common perpetrator, but that doesn't mean there are no women who agree with those guys, of course there are.
Grief
Well-Known Member
^ a nearly 3yr old obit from Australia is hardly evidence of worldwide oppression of women. If we're throwing singular examples around it's massively trumped by Angela Merkel's Chancellorship of Germany.
If we're talking of Australia isn't richest most powerful Australian a female mining tycoon?
If we're talking of Australia isn't richest most powerful Australian a female mining tycoon?
Captain Butterscotch
Well-Known Member
or because you've already run out of ultra dramatic conclusions to jump to....
UnattendedGolfcart
SSO's Fat Mac
Why can't we all just sexualize everybody equally?
I remember reading an interview with a woman, I can't remember who it was, it MIGHT have been the new Arch Enemy vocalist, but this woman interviewer was trying to be 'empowering' by saying to her "It must be great being a woman in metal!" and she kept saying "woman in metal" a lot.
Then the woman being interviewed said something to the extent of "You're not being empowering by constantly pointing out that I'm a 'woman in metal', I'm a woman who likes metal, if you wanted to get past the issue you'd stop bringing it up so much and just let me do my thing"
The arguments going on here seem to have some merit to them, but overall they depress me because everyone seems to be assuming things about each other so they can feel good about themselves by 'defeating' an argument that they basically made up/exaggerated about the person they're arguing.
This article is funny and it totally points out how women are sexualized in this case metal, and I think more importantly, aren't taken seriously because they're sexualized. You can find somebody sexy and still admire them but our culture really doesn't seem to want to do that.
I think there should be "Hottest Women" and "Hottest Men" in everything for true quality pls
I remember reading an interview with a woman, I can't remember who it was, it MIGHT have been the new Arch Enemy vocalist, but this woman interviewer was trying to be 'empowering' by saying to her "It must be great being a woman in metal!" and she kept saying "woman in metal" a lot.
Then the woman being interviewed said something to the extent of "You're not being empowering by constantly pointing out that I'm a 'woman in metal', I'm a woman who likes metal, if you wanted to get past the issue you'd stop bringing it up so much and just let me do my thing"
The arguments going on here seem to have some merit to them, but overall they depress me because everyone seems to be assuming things about each other so they can feel good about themselves by 'defeating' an argument that they basically made up/exaggerated about the person they're arguing.
This article is funny and it totally points out how women are sexualized in this case metal, and I think more importantly, aren't taken seriously because they're sexualized. You can find somebody sexy and still admire them but our culture really doesn't seem to want to do that.
I think there should be "Hottest Women" and "Hottest Men" in everything for true quality pls
Discoqueen
Dang tootin
I think when people bring up these individaual cases where women have risen to a place of power... We forget that it is an exception, and not a rule. You can name a woman who is a tycoon, or who is a leader of a party or country... But the rest are men, no? And I've not made the effort to find statistics, but if one looked at the United States Congress, or House of Representatives, or a list of the wealthiest people in the world, the amount of women on that list will be less than that of men.
troyguitar
Well-Known Member
What percentage of hot women are in "famous" metal bands compared to hot women who are in "not famous" metal bands?
What percentage of the rest of the population are in "famous" metal bands compared to "not famous" metal bands?
Do you honestly believe that there are tons of hot women out there in bands that no one has ever heard of? Put a hot chick in front of any metal band and there will be threads about them up on EVERY metal forum in a matter of days. Arch Enemy put a hot chick out front of them and they BLEW UP. That's just how it is in this world.
Facts are not sexist.
Necris
Bonitis.
That link was meant to offer a single example in support of Troys claim that women are trivialized, surely that 3 year old obituary (why is the age relevant?) backs up a claim that a womans abilities are trivialized in favor of promoting her as a sex object. I didn't claim it was an example of global oppression, which, until this post I hadn't assumed you were looking for. If I'd known you were looking for oppression female genital mutilation, women in the middle east among other things would have been the direction I went in.
That women are trivialized in other areas of society shouldn't be too difficult to believe considering we're both posting in a thread about an article that seems to have been made as a response to female musicians constantly being trivialized.
Chokey Chicken
mouth breather
Dayn
Well-Known Member
...The fact that happens is due to sexism and objectifying women.
Go take your fedora elsewhere.
JohnIce
Singlecoil Enthusiast
Arch Enemy are hardly the biggest metal band in the world though... they blew up but not disproportionately to the quality of their records and live shows, and the hype that all swedish melodeath bands had at that time. Mike Amott has written a boatload of great riffs that are recognizable and catchy, right up there with the other bands that have had equal or greater success than them (the entire Gothenburg scene and more). I don't see how In Flames or At the Gates or Dark Tranquility etc. are more deserving of their fame than Arch Enemy. They're all simply good bands that were doing something new and made tons of fans because of it. I've also seen AE live on various festivals and they are a stellar live act, too. Go to any typical metal festival and they will probably be a more enjoyable band than a lot of the others. Crediting all their success to the gender of the singer seems ridiculous to me. Angela Gossow is a very good frontperson and definitely deserves some credit, but hardly for just being hot.
I also think it's weird when you say hot women have an advantage over all the average-looking dudes... well, how often do you see an average looking woman then having any success in this genre? I can't really think of any off the top of my head, quite honestly. For every pretty shredder girl who blows up on guitar forums (mostly people saying she's only famous cause she's hot, eventually making her famous that way), there's at least 500 bands of average looking dudes who take the rest of the spotlight anyway. The fact that "girl next door" is even an expression, meant to describe celebrity women that look like someone you actually might meet in real life, that says a lot of how far that shit's gone.
Also, I listen to Orianthi. I like her music. I also like Slash, and Mark Knopfler, and Santana. They're only decent guitarists but they make great music that I enjoy. Tits have nothing to do with it, I'm sorry.
Korbain
Stay negative!
lol ^^ dear god!
I'm upset by this article because I was expecting it to be real.
And then I was going to be able to say, "But no member's of DragonForce!?" And post the memes with Herman and ZP as a L'oreal commercial. Bah.
And then I was going to be able to say, "But no member's of DragonForce!?" And post the memes with Herman and ZP as a L'oreal commercial. Bah.
troyguitar
Well-Known Member
There's a reason I put "famous" in quotes like that. There haven't been many famous metal bands outside of sabbath and metallica, so it's a tiny pool from which to draw unless you expand "famous" to mean more like "bands that are talked about by more than just their family and friends" - that is the only way to get a bigger sample.
but I'm just some sexist asshole for acknowledging that women are treated differently - and that differently is NOT ALWAYS WORSE.
troyguitar
Well-Known Member
Do you honestly believe that Orianthi would have been given all the same opportunities if she was any random white dude from say New York?
Spaced Out Ace
Well-Known Member
If she was that "random white dude from New York", she'd have to be jacked. Moreso than even Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior. And look like Rambo with a guitar.
And yes, I'm talking about Kane Roberts.
Mprinsje
st. anger ain't bad!
This isn't a very nice thread.
Andromalia
Pardon my french
Those are just not honest. For starters I have no clue who the first two are. The third one I could pickup a Cher photo to argue grandmothers have a future in rocknroll marketing.
What ? Where did I talk about this ? I was referring to the audience. Which usually is every metalhead in attendance barring the 3-7 people on the stage, which can be discounted for statistical reasons.
Sophism doesn't work but shows user has an agenda, so I'll leave you there on this subject.
Uh, yeah, that's the point: it has nothing to do with metal so I don't see what it has to do with this discussion.
Become a drummer and marry me.
