Cutest boys in metal

[Chokey Chicken]

You're right in saying it's music in general. Metal is sort of unique though in that it's not "strange" or as oftenly commented on if a woman wants to start a pop group or play an acoustic. Beauty is still a huge factor but people instantly start ragging on women if they're into heavier stuff. I've been told plenty that I'm just "trying" to be quirky and cool. You don't get that as much in tamer genres.

 

[Discoqueen]

This thread is as not at all what I as expecting.

 

[JohnIce]

You're right in saying it's music in general. Metal is sort of unique though in that it's not "strange" or as oftenly commented on if a woman wants to start a pop group or play an acoustic. Beauty is still a huge factor but people instantly start ragging on women if they're into heavier stuff. I've been told plenty that I'm just "trying" to be quirky and cool. You don't get that as much in tamer genres.

I think in most genres of music, and in movies and sports etc., most people attract fans mostly of their own gender. Exceptions being boy bands and bieber of the month etc. But even someone like Britney or Beyoncé will have mostly female fans. There's obvious reasons for that of course.

The weird thing about metal though is that, compared to other genres, even women are expected to cater to male fans first and foremost, and get a lot of shit when singing about stuff guys can't relate to. No-one is offended when someone like Carrie Underwood sings about being a girl, but if Maria Brink or Lzzy Hale does it, then bring on the butthurt from male metal fans.

So while a lot of male metal fans will say "Sure, I love that more women are getting into metal!" they're also quick to say "Wait a minute, I meant metal as in the way men make metal, what's all this singing about banging dudes? Is she gay or something? I want my money back!" Then proceed to vent their anger on internet forums, of course. The thread we had for In This Moment a while back was pretty much this, and only this.

 

[troyguitar]

For whatever reason, classical seems to be the only form of music that women in general ever really try hard to be awesome at. (pop singing being the only exception)

It's not just metal where great female musicians are a novelty, it's all non-classical music. (again, pop singing being the only exception)

How many women are out there playing like Steve Vai? Almost none. There's Jennifer Batten and... maybe a handful of others across the whole world. Compare that to men, there are thousands of dudes out there shredding their asses off trying to be the best players they can be.

 

[lemeker]

Beauty is still a huge factor but people instantly start ragging on women if they're into heavier stuff. I've been told plenty that I'm just "trying" to be quirky and cool. You don't get that as much in tamer genres.

I don't want to hijack your conversation, but reading this made me shake my head. This is a shame.

Regardless of gender, genre etc, one should not be knocked for pursing a dream or a hobby. If its what you love to do...........

 

[Grief]

My view is that women are not being marginalized in metal music and I suspect that they very happily use their sexuality to gain advantage in ways that men cannot. Does Maria Brink get a leg up and more press coverage because she is attractive? Of course as that sells magazines to the (i'm guess predominantly teenage and male) readership. Does that mean it's unfair that Amon Amarth f/ex have to rely on their talent as they are not hunky supermodels? Well not really as there may be other part of audience for them.

But is that fundamentally sexist? Does Kim's article even make any sense as at least half of the pictures in it are from photoshoots and plenty of the guys are clearly working out and taking care of their appearance. I would posit that it's a lot more difficult for a guy to work out to live up to the Misfits guy ideal than it is for a girl to trowel on lots of make up and wear little clothing like Maria Brink.

White-knighting and self-flagellation because women are exploiting their own sexuality and appearance to be successful in their careers seems a bit silly to me.

 

[Chokey Chicken]

I think in most genres of music, and in movies and sports etc., most people attract fans mostly of their own gender. Exceptions being boy bands and bieber of the month etc. But even someone like Britney or Beyoncé will have mostly female fans. There's obvious reasons for that of course.

The weird thing about metal though is that, compared to other genres, even women are expected to cater to male fans first and foremost, and get a lot of shit when singing about stuff guys can't relate to. No-one is offended when someone like Carrie Underwood sings about being a girl, but if Maria Brink or Lzzy Hale does it, then bring on the butthurt from male metal fans.

So while a lot of male metal fans will say "Sure, I love that more women are getting into metal!" they're also quick to say "Wait a minute, I meant metal as in the way men make metal, what's all this singing about banging dudes? Is she gay or something? I want my money back!" Then proceed to vent their anger on internet forums, of course. The thread we had for In This Moment a while back was pretty much this, and only this.

You make very valid points! Still, males can pick up any instrument (save for the weird shit like hurdy gurdies or however it's spelled) without being picked on. One of the biggest hurdles to overcome while learning guitar was the constant teasing. Everything you said is pretty much right though.

 

[Grief]

How many women are out there playing like Steve Vai? Almost none. There's Jennifer Batten and... maybe a handful of others across the whole world. Compare that to men, there are thousands of dudes out there shredding their asses off trying to be the best players they can be.

That might be the case but it doesn't give any clue as to why that might be. There's no suggestion that there's swathes of fantastic female guitarists being shunned in favor of men. Could it be that it is just a pursuit that more men happen to be interested in?

 

[troyguitar]

I suspect that they very happily use their sexuality to gain advantage in ways that men cannot.

If I could turn myself into a decent looking woman overnight I would do it - and you bet your ass I'd wear revealing outfits on stage and no wedding ring. It's almost guaranteed success in metal as long as you have the equivalent of a couple year's lessons in playing ability.

Hot chick + decent band = you're playing all the big festivals in europe at a minimum. Zero talent necessary.

 

[Chokey Chicken]

For whatever reason, classical seems to be the only form of music that women in general ever really try hard to be awesome at. (pop singing being the only exception)

It's not just metal where great female musicians are a novelty, it's all non-classical music. (again, pop singing being the only exception)

How many women are out there playing like Steve Vai? Almost none. There's Jennifer Batten and... maybe a handful of others across the whole world. Compare that to men, there are thousands of dudes out there shredding their asses off trying to be the best players they can be.

The ....? There are lots of shreddy female guitarists. It's still sort of uncommon for females to play the genre so there are few if any who get huge recognition, but there are plenty of girls on YouTube who can shred. Guitarists are a dime a dozen. There are plenty, male and female, that can play circles around big names that you'll never know.

 

[Chokey Chicken]

If I could turn myself into a decent looking woman overnight I would do it - and you bet your ass I'd wear revealing outfits on stage and no wedding ring. It's almost guaranteed success in metal as long as you have the equivalent of a couple year's lessons in playing ability.

Hot chick + decent band = you're playing all the big festivals in europe at a minimum. Zero talent necessary.

Untrue. Perhaps it's because I have perspective. Sexual assault is hardly fun. The sexism that fuels your words is almost physically painful.

 

[troyguitar]

The ....? There are lots of shreddy female guitarists. It's still sort of uncommon for females to play the genre so there are few if any who get huge recognition, but there are plenty of girls on YouTube who can shred. Guitarists are a dime a dozen. There are plenty, male and female, that can play circles around big names that you'll never know.

That's either false or I don't know how to youtube.

The "great female guitarists" on there are generally mediocre a la "Commander In Chief" and that chick who played with Michael Angelo who cannot do vibrato to save her life.

There is no woman playing on the level of a Shawn Lane, Jason Becker, Guthrie Govan, Jason Becker, Rusty Cooley, Yngwie Malmsteen, etc. outside of the classical world.

 

[troyguitar]

Untrue. Perhaps it's because I have perspective. Sexual assault is hardly fun. The sexism that fuels your words is almost physically painful.

Explain Orianthi playing with Steve Vai, she's not that good - but she does LOOK great!

 

[troyguitar]

Untrue. Perhaps it's because I have perspective. Sexual assault is hardly fun. The sexism that fuels your words is almost physically painful.

Perhaps you DO NOT have perspective.

Try being ignored your whole life because you're just another white dude who's decent at some stuff. Your view is as one-sided as mine.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

So while a lot of male metal fans will say "Sure, I love that more women are getting into metal!" they're also quick to say "Wait a minute, I meant metal as in the way men make metal, what's all this singing about banging dudes? Is she gay or something? I want my money back!" Then proceed to vent their anger on internet forums, of course. The thread we had for In This Moment a while back was pretty much this, and only this.

Lol. I have a female friend on my Facebook friends list whom can't stand In This Moment because the singer "wants to be a pop idol". Don't listen to them, so I'm not really sure what she means, nor do I care what In This Moment do, but I thought it was kinda funny that you tried portraying that as male metalheads.

 

[Dayn]

Sure is a lot of mansplaining going on here...

 

[Eliguy666]

Perhaps you DO NOT have perspective.

Try being ignored your whole life because you're just another white dude who's decent at some stuff. Your view is as one-sided as mine.

Sorry to have to be blunt, but that's just nonsense. Your entire argument is pretty much "It must be great to be objectified by everyone you're trying to show your talent to."
Women in media are NOT lucky to be fetishized, or diminished, and saying that they are is patently ridiculous.
The reason that prominent women in music are so rare is that the public tears them down every f*cking chance there is. Maria Anna Mozart had every sign of being a musical genius, but her career was torn down because, in society, women are called to follow their lovers' passions, not their own.
The world tells men to follow their dreams, and women to follow men. Women in politics, business, activism, and ESPECIALLY art are trivialized.

 

[troyguitar]

Sorry to have to be blunt, but that's just nonsense. Your entire argument is pretty much "It must be great to be objectified by everyone you're trying to show your talent to."

More like: It must be great to be able to succeed with less talent than men.

 

[Grief]

If I could turn myself into a decent looking woman overnight I would do it - and you bet your ass I'd wear revealing outfits on stage and no wedding ring. It's almost guaranteed success in metal as long as you have the equivalent of a couple year's lessons in playing ability.

Hot chick + decent band = you're playing all the big festivals in europe at a minimum. Zero talent necessary.

Hold on, isn't that exactly what the article is about - the over-representation of dolled-up sexualised women in metal. And that their talent is covered secondarily, if at all.

I didn't say no talent and neither did Kim.

 

[Grief]

The world tells men to follow their dreams, and women to follow men. Women in politics, business, activism, and ESPECIALLY art are trivialized.

Not too sure how things are where you are, but certainly can say in my experience women have advantage over men in area of sales, which is very lucrative area of business.

And in fact in UK I personally know of quite a few examples of women who have what is maybe feminist dream. They have studied and succeeded, got top jobs, had terrific difficulty finding a male partner of equal standing, are trapped in high-stressed senior jobs in niche industries demanding long hours and find themselves in their mid-30s with biological clock ticking and frustrated.

Most powerful politician in Europe is a woman, next US pres may well be too. Are you sure your info reflects today's situation? Do you have any
stats or examples for any of the stuff quoted above?