Data Cattle?

[TedEH]

I do kinda think that's conspiratorial thinking. "Techno oligarchs" are just corporations that happen to sell technology. The motivating factor for that would be the same as for the wage-slavery thing. If the whole purpose of a company wasn't to make money, there would be no driving force to addict people to their phones in the first place.

They aren't cackling ghouls in a spiky tower overlooking their victims in a plot for world domination, they're cackling ghouls in a boardroom overlooking the growth charts that separate them from the concerns of normal people.

 

[SalsaWood]

The evolution of the internet will be VR and simulations. People will spend almost their entire lives dreaming in another reality. You think folks are addicted to phones? You ain't seen shit.

The future is going to get weird quickly, and eventually there will be no place for the people we are today. I already wouldn't trust this species with what it is already capable of, so maybe that's not completely a bad thing.

 

[crushingpetal]

Yup. I promise, I was every bit as addicted to playing Super Nintendo (despite only owning 3 games) as kids are to phones.

The difference is that social media uses learning algorthims (deep learning / neural nets) to hack the user's mind. It can run thousands of mini-experiments on you per day to figure out how to addict you.

 

[Demiurge]

They aren't cackling ghouls in a spiky tower overlooking their victims in a plot for world domination, they're cackling ghouls in a boardroom overlooking the growth charts that separate them from the concerns of normal people.

The most common imagined dystopia is some sort of authoritarian surveillance state.

Instead, we have governments that are disinterested in governance and people willingly surrendering all of their personal information to companies just to sell them more crap. Not the darkest timeline, but maybe the dumbest.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

The most common imagined dystopia is some sort of authoritarian surveillance state.

Instead, we have governments that are disinterested in governance and people willingly surrendering all of their personal information to companies just to sell them more crap. Not the darkest timeline, but maybe the dumbest.

I tend to agree with this assessment, but I'd say there's most certainly a dark side to all of that.

Palantir Technologies - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

The evolution of the internet will be VR and simulations. People will spend almost their entire lives dreaming in another reality. You think folks are addicted to phones? You ain't seen shit.

The future is going to get weird quickly, and eventually there will be no place for the people we are today. I already wouldn't trust this species with what it is already capable of, so maybe that's not completely a bad thing.

This is something else that I think about. Not the VR thing, idk I have no interest of interacting with anyone in VR it's like "science gone too far" for me. I'm probably not the only one who feels this way. As of now VR isn't very popular, even for gaming someone who has an expensive VR setup told me it's not worth it unless you doing sim racing or something like that.
Anyway what I was going to say is that I think technology is evolving and changing the world too fast for us. In the sense that it takes a long time for a species to "evolve" to fit their environment. The more we stray from our basic and simple nature, the more mental & physical problems people are going to have. Society and life is too complicated as it is, and there's already tons of people with mental problems from all the different stresses. I don't know if we're ready for another big jump.
At least I hope if we're going this way that we can find cures and treatment for different diseases faster. For example, I would really like a tinnitus cure

 

[TedEH]

As of now VR isn't very popular, even for gaming someone who has an expensive VR setup told me it's not worth it unless you doing sim racing or something like that.

I'm definitely not convinced VR is the future. I actually really like VR, but it's expensive, cumbersome, the applications are niche and very limited, etc. We would need something that far surpasses what we think of as VR right now. Like no heavy hardware strapped to your head, no motion sickness, no screen doors, etc.

If I thought it was possible for someone to implant something that makes you hallucinate the whole experience like they imply in books and movies, instead of strapping a screen to your face, then sure. I think people would want to live there. Ultimate escapism. But that's sci-fi nonsense, and I'd be willing to bet it will never happen.

 

[odibrom]

(...)

If I thought it was possible for someone to implant something that makes you hallucinate the whole experience like they imply in books and movies, instead of strapping a screen to your face, then sure. I think people would want to live there. Ultimate escapism. But that's sci-fi nonsense, and I'd be willing to bet it will never happen.

That already exists, but it's not electronic nor mechanic... it's more on the chemestry side of things... just saying... and definitely not suggesting on using...

... old cultures that use/used these as a method of tripping into the unexpected used to do it ceremoniously... but not an nowadays, there's no context nor purpose in the voyage, so there's also no gain, just void feelings and the vain expectations/hope that in the next round one might find illumination... just like today's social media... except this place, obviously ...

 

[wheresthefbomb]

That already exists, but it's not electronic nor mechanic... it's more on the chemestry side of things... just saying... and definitely not suggesting on using...

... old cultures that use/used these as a method of tripping into the unexpected used to do it ceremoniously... but not an nowadays, there's no context nor purpose in the voyage, so there's also no gain, just void feelings and the vain expectations/hope that in the next round one might find illumination... just like today's social media... except this place, obviously ...

I had the same thought. I've definitely done my time abusing such, but I'm very careful and respectful these days. Less than once a year, and always/only when I'm ready, have the time and (head)space, the intention to look at myself, and the willingness to face what I'm shown. People talk about "enlightening" experiences, but the real change, if it comes at all, comes after, with reflection and integration. There's nothing a person could learn through such experiences, that they couldn't learn just as well in many other ways. There's no shortcuts and no magic, the "magic" is just the raw will to self-actualization. The same applies to western occult practices.

It's actually an interesting tangent to the OP, because the same tech bros who have brought us the data-mining dystopia are now bankrolling pharmaceutical psychedelic research. It's a deep, dark rabbit hole with some chilling implications. They're essentially being looked upon like anti-depressants were a couple decades ago, a panacea to the psychological ills of the times without addressing the root cause(s).

 

[TedEH]

No, the thing I described doesn't exist already. I should have not have used the word hallucinate.

I don't mean drugs, I mean rendering a very specific experience directly into your consciousness or something like that. You can't play Fortnight by piping it right into your brain. Drugs are not the evolution of VR / metaverse.

 

[odibrom]

I had the same thought. I've definitely done my time abusing such, but I'm very careful and respectful these days. Less than once a year, and always/only when I'm ready, have the time and (head)space, the intention to look at myself, and the willingness to face what I'm shown. People talk about "enlightening" experiences, but the real change, if it comes at all, comes after, with reflection and integration. There's nothing a person could learn through such experiences, that they couldn't learn just as well in many other ways. There's no shortcuts and no magic, the "magic" is just the raw will to self-actualization. The same applies to western occult practices.

It's actually an interesting tangent to the OP, because the same tech bros who have brought us the data-mining dystopia are now bankrolling pharmaceutical psychedelic research. It's a deep, dark rabbit hole with some chilling implications. They're essentially being looked upon like anti-depressants were a couple decades ago, a panacea to the psychological ills of the times without addressing the root cause(s).

My opinion about drugs is that each one of us is free to do to ourselves as we please, if that means drugs, it means drugs... however, that is not the way. Drugs as an entertainment activity is not the way, has never been and I doubt it will ever be.

I'm as clean as possible in that regards, never did drugs, never smoked (I was for a long time, unfortunately, a passive smoker), never got drunk nor even a coffee. None of this makes any sense to me, to loose consciousness or be high on caffeine.

That doesn't mean I did not trip before. Illnesses, migraines, pain on several levels (teeth specially) are all a special kind of voyage one has to endure and learn with. I think it was Bruce Lee who said Pain is a Lesson to be learned...

There are obviously more dopamine rich trips, like tasting a sweet fruit for the first time, being in awe because of anything, falling in love... and primarily, PLAYING THE GUITAR...

No, the thing I described doesn't exist already. I should have not have used the word hallucinate.

I don't mean drugs, I mean rendering a very specific experience directly into your consciousness or something like that. You can't play Fortnight by piping it right into your brain. Drugs are not the evolution of VR / metaverse.

Ok, I may have taken the previous post into a path a bit too dark, my point was more of a joke. However, and regarding your perspective of hacking someone's brain so one can have direct access to a video game, I'm seeing in the not very var future that it could be achieved via a pill loaded with nano bots which will... do just that, and then some... I think that is super dangerous and potentially weaponize-able, so to make unsuspecting people disposable assets for something the Illuminati may conjure... ... and add Conspiracy Theories to the pot...

I'm sorry, I'm kind of rambling because a night without sleep due to work is a hell of a trip... a not pleasant one by the way...

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Thousands are reporting mobile phone service disruption... AT&T, Verizon, etc...

Take that, wife!

 

[slim231990]

Yea...while I loved my Nintendo 64 and was addicted, it didn't try to brain wash me like most social media does now. As soon as the 64 game was bought Nintendo got their money, they didn't have active financial gain on how many hrs of my life I spent playing Majora's Mask lmao.

Once again I'm not judging anyone for how long they spend on SM or other addicting apps. Shit I can't even check my weather without having some kind of targeted personal ad.

The thing that I always go back to is the kids. Imagine how many children are gonna grow up hooked on some form of digital dopamine. How many people are going to be robbed of their true potential .... for instance the next great musician, or sports athlete, or world leader that could've been great but were robbed of the chance so some company could mine their META.

I've seen children turn down new bicycles or trips to theme parks because they would rather watch someone else experience it thru a youtube video. There's something deeply wrong with that. Once again I hate to sound like a boomer but the writing's on the wall. All I can do is hope that one day teenagers notice their parents hooked on FB and think "man... mom and dad are lame...fuck social media, I'm gonna go outside."

 

[Briz]

All I can do is hope that one day teenagers notice their parents hooked on FB and think "man... mom and dad are lame...fuck social media, I'm gonna go outside."

That'll be the next gen counterculture thrash or punk rock movement.

"You're anti, you're antisocial (media)"

 

[Demiurge]

Perhaps it's naive, but maybe the kids will eventually just burn-out on it and self-correct their behavior.

Time-consuming things consume time (no shit), and of course young people have a lot of that. They can 'waste' their time like they think there's always going to be more. With age comes more to do: school, work, responsibilities, family, etc. and the realization that time is finite. When one realizes that time is finite, there comes a need to use better discretion as to what activities earn that time.

Do I enjoy the occasional doom-scroll while unwinding before bed? Sure. But in a life full of over-scheduled multi-tasking and the suffocating feeling of always being behind, I just see the world of online content as another endless task and I just have no taste for it- maybe others get there that way, too.

 

[TedEH]

I tend to think that while we attribute a lot of the problem with social media to "being addictive", and to the kinds of money power that incentivizes it, I think there's another angle:
Celebrity worship and influencers.

Everyone either cares too much about them, or want too badly to be them. It's what keeps me away from TikTok - I cannot stand the pick-me mentality at the core of those platforms.

I'd like to think that what we need is another wave of media literacy. For example, whenever you see a 7 second clip of "WOAH LOOK AT WHAT JUST HAPPENED BRO", people should be asking why they just miraculously happened to be filming at that moment. Or questioning whether or not reaction content actually adds anything to the clips they stole, or why those channels are full of thousands upon thousands of uploads. It's almost all staged, or faked, or preying on people using parasocial tactics.

It's like junk TV, or reality TV. Not to say there's no place for it - junk food has a place in moderation - but we've yet to figure out that moderation part when it comes to the online firehose of content.

 

[Briz]

I do kinda think that's conspiratorial thinking. "Techno oligarchs" are just corporations that happen to sell technology. The motivating factor for that would be the same as for the wage-slavery thing. If the whole purpose of a company wasn't to make money, there would be no driving force to addict people to their phones in the first place.

They aren't cackling ghouls in a spiky tower overlooking their victims in a plot for world domination, they're cackling ghouls in a boardroom overlooking the growth charts that separate them from the concerns of normal people.

Google Gemini and Jack Krawczyk combined the most dystopian parts of Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 and they're catching heat for it. In some documented cases, these techno oligarchs and their staff do impart their worldviews and ideologies on their consumers. The question is, do they think it's righteous to rewrite history and disseminate lies to usher in their idea of better future? It appears that some do. When tying that to the idea of multiple generations being tethered to technology, it's a slippery slope that could become increasingly dangerous. It seems like social pen testing for vulnerabilities - or at the very least, an attempt to remove the value we place on logic, reason, and critical thinking.

 

[TedEH]

Google Gemini and Jack Krawczyk combined the most dystopian parts of Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 and they're catching heat for it.

I still think that's conspiratorial thinking, and an exaggeration. Yeah, I heard that the google AI was changing the race of historical figures, but what's the more likely scenario, that AI is difficult to train to reflect real-world diversity, or that Google wants to convince you that white people didn't ever do anything historically significant and are trying to change history through chat bots?

But also, it's worth asking why you've attributed a diversity push in a niche tech product as "the most dystopian parts of Fahrenheit 451 and 1984". Certainly there are more dystopian things happening in the world right now.

If you're in google's position, you're kinda stuck in a no-win situation when it comes to diversity in AI training data, because if you do nothing at all, it's very easy to accidentally create racist chat bots, or models that don't recognize non-white concepts or faces. And then a bunch of people are mad at you. But it seems apparent that it's very possible to over-correct and have have the internet call you "woke" instead.

 

[Briz]

I still think that's conspiratorial thinking, and an exaggeration. Yeah, I heard that the google AI was changing the race of historical figures, but what's the more likely scenario, that AI is difficult to train to reflect real-world diversity, or that Google wants to convince you that white people didn't ever do anything historically significant and are trying to change history through chat bots?

But also, it's worth asking why you've attributed a diversity push in a niche tech product as "the most dystopian parts of Fahrenheit 451 and 1984". Certainly there are more dystopian things happening in the world right now.

If you're in google's position, you're kinda stuck in a no-win situation when it comes to diversity in AI training data, because if you do nothing at all, it's very easy to accidentally create racist chat bots, or models that don't recognize non-white concepts or faces. And then a bunch of people are mad at you. But it seems apparent that it's very possible to over-correct and have have the internet call you "woke" instead.

I think his own words perfectly sum up why the algorithm is the way it is. I'm not going into politics here, just pointing out an obvious example of how our biases can influence what we perceive as noble and altruistic. When "free technology products" like AI become common tools that we rely on, use daily, teach with, learn with, and spend considerable amounts of time on, we should pay close attention to the degree of it's objective accuracy, don't you think?

I only used this example because it's in almost every news feed right now.

As someone that works on the product side software development and delivery, I'd bet that this system is generating the output for which it was designed. There's no way Gemini didn't go through the standard development process, which always includes some form of testing and QA before prod deploy / launch. I'm also willing to bet there was an MVP or MLS that was evaluated prior to launch. The system always does what it's designed to do, whether that's critical failure or contrary to the intent of the design.

Bringing it back out of the political realm, I'm only trying to highlight how it can be abused and turn future generations into data cattle and byproducts of social engineering, hypothetically. I don't know how you feel, but I prefer truth, whether the picture it paints is horrific and ugly or amazing and beautiful. If we start with truth, we can work our way through the critical thinking process and arrive at our own conclusions and decisions.

 

[TedEH]

I think his own words perfectly sum up why the algorithm is the way it is.

And those words are? All I can find are right-wing articles that are mad at him for "promoting diversity the wrong way" because he uses strong language when talking about things like... the fact that racism exists.

When "free technology products" like AI become common tools that we rely on, use daily, teach with, learn with, and spend considerable amounts of time on, we should pay close attention to the degree of it's objective accuracy, don't you think?

Of course. But also, the average person doesn't rely on it, and as soon as it was noticed, they acknowledged it was wrong and started fixing it.

As someone that works on the product side software development and delivery, I'd bet that this system is generating the output for which it was designed.

I mean, I also work in software development - on a team that includes some AI research. This was a very easy outcome to reach accidentally.

There's no way Gemini didn't go through the standard development process, which always includes some form of testing and QA before prod deploy / launch.

You're talking about a company from the era of "move fast and break things". And, being in software, you should know damn well that no company ever covers every possible user case - especially when it comes to something like AI where the possibility space makes it literally impossible to get 100% coverage. That's an inherent risk of building AI systems - which we know because of how many accidentally racist AIs we've built. It's not a stretch to see one of them lean the other direction.

The system always does what it's designed to do

No, the system always does what it was programmed to do, which, as a software developer, I imagine you know very well doesn't always match the intended design - again, especially in a space like AI where the massive possibility space makes that a bigger-than-traditional challenge.

I'll go a step further in that if you're a software developer, I'm sure you know that a product like that is never the result of a single person. This isn't "Jack Krawczyk did this", it's "Google did this". As a team. The screwed it up, as a team.

I don't know how you feel, but I prefer truth

Truth also includes being honest about your own biases when evaluating when someone (or a company) makes a mistake.

If we start with truth, we can work our way through the critical thinking process and arrive at our own conclusions and decisions.

No, you have this backwards. You start with critical thinking, to arrive at the truth. You can't "start with the truth" unless you're substituting in whatever you believed from the outset.

And that's why I think it's conspiratorial thinking. A lot of people who envision the worst outcomes in technology are starting from the conclusion and working backwards to validate whatever they already felt about the matter. And I'm not defending google - they're not a "good person", they're a faceless corporation that contributes to a lot of the worlds problems. But wokeness ain't one of them. There's 101 reasons to criticize google, and to be wary of AI, but this ain't one of em.