Differences between SSL / Neve consoles?

[tecs99]

Would love to hear a deeper insight on the differences between these 2 console's sound, and what makes them unique to mix on. Are the plugin versions of these consoles any good? Some of my favorite records have been mixed on either one, so, just wondering.

Thanks!

 

[tedtan]

What do you mean by “Neve” console?

- A vintage Neve (owned by Rupert Neve from the mid 1960s until he sold it in 1973);
- A more recent Neve branded console made by AMS-Neve (the current owner of Neve);
- A Focusrite console (formed and designed by Rupert Neve after his non-compete agreement with Bonochord/Siemens/AMS Neve expired);
- An Amek console designed by Rupert Neve in conjunction with Amek;
- A summing mixer by Rupert Neve Designs.

Those early Neve consoles, the ones most people think of as Neve consoles, have rudimentary 3-band EQ and don’t have any automation, but have a sound. As you get more recent, you get more modern features, like less of a sound to the mixer, but better EQs, compressors, automation, etc.

The SSL consoles had better EQ, compression on every track, automation, etc. from the beginning. The older consoles had more of a sound, whereas the newer E series consoles are pretty clean.

I recommend checking out something like Softube’s Console One or similar to get an idea of what they bring to the table.

 

[DarkstarII]

SSL’s are “cleaner” and less-colored sounding. Artists sometimes record with Neve or API and then mix using an SSL.

Neve is “thick” and colored, API “punchy“ and more “in your face.” Neve’s came first (1960s), then API (early 70s) then SSL in the early 80s. That’s how I remember it anyways.

 

[tedtan]

Oh, the Sonimus Burnley 73 is a good plugin to get the early Neve console warmth, thickness, filter, and EQ fairly inexpensively. And it does go on sale from time to time, too, so you can save a little money if you can wait.

 

[tecs99]

wow thank you so much! I didn't know the history behind the Neves. I'll check out those plugin references.

 

[Drew]

Yeah, I love the Burnley73. Great saturation plugin, even before you get into the fact it's an excellent, very usable "broad shape" EQ.

No experience with SSL, but I've got a couple CAPI preamps (API clones, and I understand relatively similar in overall color to SSL) and a couple BAE preamps (faithful recplica of a Neve 1073 preamp, down to the original transformers) that I use.

There are definite differences, and I like them for very different things.

The CAPIs are deeper, more transparent, and for it a little brighter and more "sparkly" I guess in the high end. Very fast transient response, and (IMO at least) probably a little more modern sounding. The BAEs are, especially as they get pushed a bit, "thicker" - low end extension isn't as deep (though still plenty there) but probably more substantial and solid feeling, very thick midrange... CAPIs are more broadband and open, BAEs are thicker and more focused. I hesitate to use "punchy" because, well, that can mean different things to different people.

I love the CAPIs on acoustic guitars, and instead reach for the BAE for electric guitars (though, if I was doing more of a modern metal production, the CAPI might be a good option, deeper and with a little less present of a midrange) and bass (that driven a little, plus a Neve 551 EQ, is basically a mix-ready rock bass sound with nothing else on it).

But, like... in a pinch, when you're talking this caliber of gear, it kind of doesn't matter and you can make a great sounding album on any of it. I might prefer the CAPI on an acoustic, but if I didn't have it I'd still use the BAE without hesitation, over the built-in preamps (which are still very good, just not exceptional) in my Apogee Ensemble. Use the tools you have.

 

[l1ll1]

Since you probably will not buy a real 8048 Neve console nor a real Focusrite era or newer AMS with flying faders or one of those huge 4000 series SSLs and are asking for the "in the box"-version of Neve vs. SSL: These are the (very) oversimplified (!) characteristics that everybody kind of agreed on:

- SSL 4000 (both E and G): The older SSL console, lots of features, gates, comps, flexible eqs per channel. Think 80s sound, more defined than vintage blurry, but with some harmonics when pushed. SNARE. Every mix of mine has a Waves SSL Comp in it which came with these consoles...

- SSL 9000: The quintessential hip hop / R&B console, but also used on ton (!!) of other industry jobs. This one will have basically the same features, is more open / cleaner, have a deep low end, but also works well for dense mixes.

- Neve: You will almost always get something modeled after the early consoles (8048 or something with 1072s in it). More reduced features, but very "musical" EQs and compressors. Tamed top end, big low mids, can exagerate bass (fun), easily pushed into clipping (will sound different than API, SSL, REDD/EMI stuff). Plug Ins of this variety will not "hide" themselves that much. I have a Neve in all my mixes, be it in the studio or live (mostly something modeled after their diode bridge compressor). Shitty plugins of this variety can sometimes not stack up very well. 1072 / 1081 pres or clones are one of THE go to preamps for guitar recording.

Good options:
Waves does great SSL (E-Channel is their 4000 series strip) and Neve stuff (Scheps 72 for pre+EQ), as does Brainworks. The Focusrite channel from Brainworks is my go to strip for regular mixing duties and KILLS (features, sound, GUI).
Have not yet looked into Softube.

Powpow.

 

[tecs99]

Since you probably will not buy a real 8048 Neve console nor a real Focusrite era or newer AMS with flying faders or one of those huge 4000 series SSLs and are asking for the "in the box"-version of Neve vs. SSL: These are the (very) oversimplified (!) characteristics that everybody kind of agreed on:

- SSL 4000 (both E and G): The older SSL console, lots of features, gates, comps, flexible eqs per channel. Think 80s sound, more defined than vintage blurry, but with some harmonics when pushed. SNARE. Every mix of mine has a Waves SSL Comp in it which came with these consoles...

- SSL 9000: The quintessential hip hop / R&B console, but also used on ton (!!) of other industry jobs. This one will have basically the same features, is more open / cleaner, have a deep low end, but also works well for dense mixes.

- Neve: You will almost always get something modeled after the early consoles (8048 or something with 1072s in it). More reduced features, but very "musical" EQs and compressors. Tamed top end, big low mids, can exagerate bass (fun), easily pushed into clipping (will sound different than API, SSL, REDD/EMI stuff). Plug Ins of this variety will not "hide" themselves that much. I have a Neve in all my mixes, be it in the studio or live (mostly something modeled after their diode bridge compressor). Shitty plugins of this variety can sometimes not stack up very well. 1072 / 1081 pres or clones are one of THE go to preamps for guitar recording.

Good options:
Waves does great SSL (E-Channel is their 4000 series strip) and Neve stuff (Scheps 72 for pre+EQ), as does Brainworks. The Focusrite channel from Brainworks is my go to strip for regular mixing duties and KILLS (features, sound, GUI).
Have not yet looked into Softube.

Powpow.

thanks for this! in terms of plugins i was thinking of getting either the waves EV2 and bus comp, or the SSL native alternatives. usually i just run the stock ableton EQ's so i think it will be fun to use those.

 

[l1ll1]

thanks for this! in terms of plugins i was thinking of getting either the waves EV2 and bus comp, or the SSL native alternatives. usually i just run the stock ableton EQ's so i think it will be fun to use those.

Didnt try this one yet, but Waves does solid SSL stuff. The Bus Comp is a step up from Abletons Glue Comp. Tip: really get to know what the different options in the SSL stuff can do (Buttons, routings, etc.). Dont underestimate Abletons stock plugins though. EQ8 in oversampling (right click and activate) is really powerful.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I love the 1073 preamp. You can put a vocal through it, and not even change any eq settings in it, but the gain staging can give you that classic Neve characteristic. Same thing with an 1176 compressor.

 

[c7spheres]

Neve = vibe/ mojo some noise character etc. lots of old stuff recorded on them (the famous boards)
SSL= Clinical technical detail clarity sound with lot's of extra features.

I wouldn't get either unless I had lot's of disposable income. I'd like some Neve pre's though. At this point most big names moved on from tape but sitll like vintage consoles for that mojo. Apparently plugins get really close too. I helped record this one a long time ago but got no credits for it (because I was a newby and did mostly mic's and setup tasks. I wasn't expecting any credit so it's all good, but I mic'd and setup everything mostly. I didn't get much time behind the console at all other than maybe levels and basic tasks) I love those guys though and am very grateful for the experiences.

It's on a vintage Neve into an Otari MTR-90. You'll NEVER guess what the guitars were done with (yes, it's a guitar product) and a whole assortment of analog and digital synth (mostly a Korg mono) was used. Vocals I can't remember but I'm thinking it was a Neumann u87 because that was a big go to back then. It was all done in one main room and 2 smaller iso rooms/booth. This is at Saltimine Studios in Mesa, AZ, orignal location. I was at the first location in 97/98. Not this new location. When I was there though there was still a lot of rap and country acts and of note Megadeth and Lynch Mob recorded there too. I didn't meet them personally though because they were closed sessions/no help needed. Since then, they've recorded some of the biggest Grammy winning acts ever. It's all because of the mojo I injected into them before I left : ) Just kdding.

They say the release date is 1999 but I think that's wrong. Maybe I just got an early copy. It was so fun helping for their shows. Kind of a ravey type scene and everyone dressed up. Giant mushrooms and alien/ psycho cinderalla costumes type stuff, lights etc. I miss the old days. Lot's of variety on this one. To bad it didn't take off. I think Garbage kinda took their spot, imo. The song's "Laugh" and "The "Dove" and "My life" are a few of my favorites on it.











A funny story to go along with it

Garbage In, Garbage Out

Sure, who wouldn't like a sign from above that he or she is on the right track? For months, Sipping Soma's Mark Matson had been woodshedding his living-room sound experiments with neighbor Diedre Radford, the possessor of an exotic, eerie voice and a cheap keyboard. Matson got just the validation...

www.phoenixnewtimes.com

I'll say what the guitars were later. It'll show just how well a Neve can mojo a signal.

 

[Drew]

I wouldn't get either unless I had lot's of disposable income.

In a pinch, if you're on a budget, I'd probably suggest getting 1-2 VERY good preamps, but something neutral without a lot of color to it, unless you KNOW you really like "the Neve sound" or something. Preamp quality absolutely matters, and I for one think over time getting yourself into a situation where you have as many inputs as you need of "pro" quality preamps whose response you know well, so when you have to upgrade your interface you can just replace the AD/DA conversion and not have to buy something with integrated preamps you'll need to re-learn.

But, as a guy who has bought some pretty sweet hardware pres, I'll also be the first to admit that software emulation really does a good job of capturing that vibe, so as long as you can get a really good, high quality signal to disc, you can do a lot ITB, too.

 

[Drew]

In a pinch, if you're on a budget, I'd probably suggest getting 1-2 VERY good preamps, but something neutral without a lot of color to it, unless you KNOW you really like "the Neve sound" or something. Preamp quality absolutely matters, and I for one think over time getting yourself into a situation where you have as many inputs as you need of "pro" quality preamps whose response you know well, so when you have to upgrade your interface you can just replace the AD/DA conversion and not have to buy something with integrated preamps you'll need to re-learn.

But, as a guy who has bought some pretty sweet hardware pres, I'll also be the first to admit that software emulation really does a good job of capturing that vibe, so as long as you can get a really good, high quality signal to disc, you can do a lot ITB, too.

Actually, let me amend this.

In a pinch, if you're on a budget, use whatever gear you can get your hands on and don't overthink it, because even budget stuff really isn't bad these days, and maybe just be careful about things like running the preamps and converters hot and make sure you're leaving yourself plenty of headroom, ignore anyone who tells you you need to be sure to "use up all the bits," and just focus on writing the best music you can and playing it as well as you can, and if you write a kickass song and capture a kickass performance no one's going to care how well it's recorded, and if you don't, then $50,000 in pro studio gear isn't going to make anyone outside of a recording forum care.

But if you want to invest in high end gear while still trying to respect a budget, get a very clean, transparent preamp and the best conversion you can, and use plugins for color, rather than worrying about an assortment of "color" preamps.

 

[c7spheres]

Actually, let me amend this.

In a pinch, if you're on a budget, use whatever gear you can get your hands on and don't overthink it, because even budget stuff really isn't bad these days, and maybe just be careful about things like running the preamps and converters hot and make sure you're leaving yourself plenty of headroom, ignore anyone who tells you you need to be sure to "use up all the bits," and just focus on writing the best music you can and playing it as well as you can, and if you write a kickass song and capture a kickass performance no one's going to care how well it's recorded, and if you don't, then $50,000 in pro studio gear isn't going to make anyone outside of a recording forum care.

But if you want to invest in high end gear while still trying to respect a budget, get a very clean, transparent preamp and the best conversion you can, and use plugins for color, rather than worrying about an assortment of "color" preamps.

I've known several people that've done the lunchbox method and it makes perfect sense. Get a couple API's or Neve 500 series and you're golden for pre's. It' makes sense because most the time people record 2 tracks or less anyways. They get really great recordings from their jam spot or studio and I attribute most of that to good mic's and preamps. Even in a crappy sounding room you can get really good results with good pre's and mic's. I'd even say good pre's are more important than good mic's. I've heard good recordings with low cost mic's and pre's but a crappy mic by todays standards seems to sound better than a crappy preamp.
- If you are lookng for verstility though I'd say go with a transparent preamp like Drew is saying. More versatile and tone character can be added later to a degree if needed.

- Those clips above of Sipping Soma used a Neve and since nobody seems to care to guess ,the guitars used mostly either a Vg-8 or Vg-88. Now that's the Neve and tape mojo going to work, but mostly it's the Neve. It just sounds good and translates good.

 

[Drew]

That's what I did, basically, though it's all conventional rackmount, and I'm very happy with it - I have preferred signalchains for different things and like the results I get. But, on a budget, just getting something super transparent and doing all your color processing ITB is the better.

But, again, I can't stress this enough - no one went out and bought an album because it was recorded with a Neve. It is FAR too easy to overthink this stuff and unless you're recording people for a living, the equipment you use is one of the last things you should be thinking about.

 

[l1ll1]

Actually, let me amend this.

In a pinch, if you're on a budget, use whatever gear you can get your hands on and don't overthink it, because even budget stuff really isn't bad these days, and maybe just be careful about things like running the preamps and converters hot and make sure you're leaving yourself plenty of headroom, ignore anyone who tells you you need to be sure to "use up all the bits," and just focus on writing the best music you can and playing it as well as you can, and if you write a kickass song and capture a kickass performance no one's going to care how well it's recorded, and if you don't, then $50,000 in pro studio gear isn't going to make anyone outside of a recording forum care.

But if you want to invest in high end gear while still trying to respect a budget, get a very clean, transparent preamp and the best conversion you can, and use plugins for color, rather than worrying about an assortment of "color" preamps.

Your point about focusing on music – the art, the emotion, what you want to express – is actually super important and thank you for that, I wish someone had told me that 18 years ago when I got really into it, hahaha. Recording gear can be a crazy rabbit hole... as can be any form of equipment, I'm writing this on a guitar forum of all places.

 

[tecs99]

I can't stress this enough - no one went out and bought an album because it was recorded with a Neve. It is FAR too easy to overthink this stuff and unless you're recording people for a living, the equipment you use is one of the last things you should be thinking about.

Super good point to remember for sure