Discussion: Being a better songwriter OR player?

[Matyrker]

Hey Ya'll.

I've been a guitar player for over 10 years now. And I will be the first to say there are many things that I should be able to do that I do not (shredding, sweeping.) But it is because I had never cared about it.

At some point in time I decided that being a good song writer was more important than being another kid showing off his sweeps on youtube.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT THESE DO NOT GO HAND IN HAND. However, my "evidence" shows that these two don't run together quite as often as every one thinks.

For instance, Monuments and Tesseract (yes, I know) both (IMO) write INCREDIBLE music. However they are not often showing off their lead skills.

And I cannot express how much of my FB newsfeed is kids with 30 second videos of them sweep picking. Every day. And no songs or anything to show for it. What good is being a crazy good guitar player if you can't write crap for composition?

But look at a band like Polyphia. Those dudes are gnarly guitar players and I enjoy their music as well.

Anyways, I may be rambling. And maybe this is all just my opinion anyways? Or am I missing anything? Like I said, I am curious as to what other people think:

What's more important? Being a good song writer or a skilled musician?

 

[bigswifty]

Being a good composer/song writer IMO is way more important.

But a tasty lead is always icing on the cake

 

[asetic]

You need to be a skilled musician to be a good song writer. But you don't need to be a good song writer to be a skilled musician.

 

[MrBouleDeBowling]

It depends on what you consider good songwritting in the first place.

But i get ya'. I should be a more technical player than I am for the time I have been playing guitar. Expressing myself through my music was always more important for me than being a great guitarist. I'm happy with the music I write. However, I greatly improved in the last 2 years, and I'm really stoked to be able to go a little crazier with my songwritting.

I still love me some technical death metal tho. My Necrophagist CD's are unreadable from being played too much in my car.

 

[AliceLG]

I'm also on the better-to-be-a-songwriter camp. I can shred a little and I've been picking up tapping tricks over the last 4-5 years from other guitar players, but I can't sweep if my life depended on it. What I can do is take a bunch of disjointed riffs and licks and work them until I get a song out of them. My improvisational skills are also quite OK, not breathtaking but I can play in tune and make it at least interesting sometimes.

I used to play songs with a very good friend who was on the opposite side, prioritizing technique over songwriting. He can shred for days and can play anything I give him flawlessly, but he can't jam or improvise at all. We had this same discussion once and I told him that yes, he is indeed a superior guitar player and can outshred me any day, but then I asked him how many songs had he written in the last 5 years. That turned awkward fast.

I could go on one of those 100-day challenges and come out sweeping like a madman, but I'd rather keep expanding my songwriting. In the end the shredding and diddlying is only 10% of your song.

 

[kamello]

You need to be a skilled musician to be a good song writer. But you don't need to be a good song writer to be a skilled musician.

not at all IMO




In my personal case though, I've felt that improving my songwritting has forced me to become a better player

I used to play songs with a very good friend who was on the opposite side, prioritizing technique over songwriting. He can shred for days and can play anything I give him flawlessly, but he can't jam or improvise at all. We had this same discussion once and I told him that yes, he is indeed a superior guitar player and can outshred me any day, but then I asked him how many songs had he written in the last 5 years. That turned awkward fast.

I could go on one of those 100-day challenges and come out sweeping like a madman, but I'd rather keep expanding my songwriting. In the end the shredding and diddlying is only 10% of your song.

Same thing with my best friend but he took it good and now is trying to improve his writting skills and learning how to play Piano.
Im far from being a good songwritter (3 songs a year maybe and a ....load of half-assed stuff) but playing my own stuff and pushing my writting and technique because of that is far more enjoyable that just shredding around non-stop

 

[Bloody_Inferno]

Songs are a musicians bread and butter. If a guitarist wants to take a musical career seriously they need songs, and good songs at that. And to write good songs you'll have to practice writing a lot of them, even if it results with some average or terrible songs in the process. Having flawless technique is pointless without a great song. There's always being a session musican where technique and style is important, but that just shows that if you're not writing your own songs, you'll be playing someone else's. Of course there's nothing wrong with that.

That said, you can't neglect on technique either and more importantly, the application of great technique. It's one thing to practice until you can shred masterfully but what good is it when you can't extrapolate what you've learned effectively during a musical situation? I guess there's always that 'instrumental' route where the technique becomes central to the song. But that also immensely narrows down the audience only to guitarists.

I may sound like I'm coming down harshly. There's nothing wrong with practicing one's technique to it's pinnacle, hell, I love that. My problem is when technique becomes a crutch, then overused over a boring backing track and then passing it off as a 'song'. It becomes nothing more than a vehicle for guitar technique rather than something truly compelling.

For guys who spend time covering difficult songs and then posting on youtube, that's cool too. They've spent time practicing away to play like their heroes. That's a musical celebration in itself. And if that's all they want to do, that's fine. You're still playing someone else's song... and as I said earlier, nothing wrong with that.

For me personally, I'll take the songwriting route any day of the week, and using whatever technique I learned to serve the songs I write.

I'm also on the better-to-be-a-songwriter camp. I can shred a little and I've been picking up tapping tricks over the last 4-5 years from other guitar players, but I can't sweep if my life depended on it. What I can do is take a bunch of disjointed riffs and licks and work them until I get a song out of them. My improvisational skills are also quite OK, not breathtaking but I can play in tune and make it at least interesting sometimes.

I used to play songs with a very good friend who was on the opposite side, prioritizing technique over songwriting. He can shred for days and can play anything I give him flawlessly, but he can't jam or improvise at all. We had this same discussion once and I told him that yes, he is indeed a superior guitar player and can outshred me any day, but then I asked him how many songs had he written in the last 5 years. That turned awkward fast.

I could go on one of those 100-day challenges and come out sweeping like a madman, but I'd rather keep expanding my songwriting. In the end the shredding and diddlying is only 10% of your song.

 

[SeditiousDissent]

Songwriter, for sure. I will never be a technician on the guitar. I don't have the time and/or patience to practice something for x amount of hours per day that I will use for maybe 8 to 16 bars in a song. I'd much rather become more proficient in my arrangements. I'm in a MASSIVE "intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus/chorus" rut right now and I want to break that habit. I couldn't care less about leads because my songwriting has become stale and boring.

 

[Nats]

Songwriter. I'd rather be able to write out arrangements for a song than be able to actually play the song. Especially in the digital age. No one needs to know how to play an instrument anymore.

 

[theFraz]

Being a good song writer or a skilled musician?

I choose "a good song writer".
and IMHO is way more difficult than find a skilled musician

 

[cwhitey2]

I think song writing is way more important.

I chose that path long ago. Do I wish I was a better? Heck yes, but who doesn't?

I have seen so many great players that are meh at best at actually writing IMO. Those players don't entertain me has much players who are great composers

 

[JohnIce]

I think just like any other art form, be it writing or drawing or film making or whatever, creativity and technique are totally separate things. For example, George Lucas has amazing creativity but he's not really the best dialogue writer. Whereas someone like Quentin Tarantino could make a 10-minute dialogue about tipping interesting. But he probably couldn't invent the Force, or Jawas. They're definitely separate talents.

I've spent a lot of time practicing the ways of the shred (over 10.000 hours) and it did very little for my creativity. All I did was learn tons of stuff not because I liked it but because I was "making progress" and "getting better" as if that should matter. 15 years later here I am only utilizing 10% of my guitar skills because that's all I actually WANT to play So yeah, I wish I'd spent less time practicing stuff I didn't care for on guitar and more time developing my taste and creativity.

 

[haieb]

My philosophy is to master both. But the skill of writing is more important because otherwise you end up with meaningless notes. Skill should make you able to express what you want, so it is kind of important too. It is comparable with tools. In Germany we have this saying: "Every craftsman is only as good as his tools".
The thing that I always hear and read is that ppl connect skill with playing fast(sweeps, shred), but imho it is wrong. There is so much more to consider as skill. Like rhythm and dynamic. If you don't have the groove(rhythm skills), none of your writing skill will help you writing a groovy song. Or if you want dem feelz(sorry ) in a solo you need to be able to play dynamically and ofc also have the feel for notes and modes(writing skills).
So both kinda go hand-in-hand and the lack of one of the two will influence the outcome

 

[Rev2010]

Obviously, as evidenced by all the replies so far, song writing is definitely far more important. Not just more important, it's far more important. Having more refined playing skills will often allow you to write some things you otherwise wouldn't have been able to. But these days, with technology, we can often write things that are supremely difficult, or even impossible, to play and still get it recorded.

That said, when I was younger I was able to play way faster than I can now. I'd taken a long hiatus (years) and when I came back to guitar I decided to change from economy picking to straight up alternate. I can regain my abilities if I practiced more, but with working a full time job and other life responsibilities I prefer to use my music time more for writing songs. I would much prefer to listen to a good song than listen to some uber fast shredding wankery. It's no wonder I dislike a vast majority of solos in songs, especially when every song on an album has a solo. I never understood that concept... so ok we need to see the lead guitarist show off his chops on every single song?? Don't get me wrong, I love MANY solos (Nuno's solo in Play With Me, Most of Dave Mustaine's solo's especially in Holy Wars, most solos by Exodus, etc). Those solos get me amped and have great musicality that adds to the song. Unfortunately so many are just "look at how many notes I can run through!!".


Rev.

 

[TedEH]

I'd kinda prioritize it this way:
Rhythm playing > Song Writing > Wanky lead stuff

I mean that in the sense that being a good song writer, to me, is more valuable than being able to show off your "mad shred skillz", but I think you have to have at least a decent level of competency with rhythm on your instrument before you understand it well enough to write for it. Kind of like how one of the first suggestions for drum programming ideas is to study what an actual drummer would do. The best way to program drums, IMO, is to be a drummer to begin with. I'm in the same camp as those who have good rhythm skills- I can play some really solid rhythm on most instruments I pick up, but I never got any good at fast leads. Slow leads "for the feels" I can do, but I'm terrible at sweeping for example. But I don't feel like I need it. That's just one out of a bajilion tools you could use in a song.

But this is just what works for me- and I think it's worth recognizing that there's as much a place for people with lots of instrument skill but no writing skill. Lots of people play in bands without contributing much to the writing, and that's fine. There is no objective "this is how you should prioritize these".

 

[lemeker]

I think songwriting is more important. Look at guys like Dave Ghrol, not a super flashy guitarist, but damn he writes some killer tunes. I think being skilled is important for many of the same reasons others have said, but not necessarily required to be a good songwriter. An example would be like me, im not a drummer, not skilled at drums, but i can make a simple beat by hitting my hands off of a tables, or something like that, and create a beat....

 

[will_shred]

interesting thread, just because someone is proud that they can sweep pick and wants to share it on facebook doesn't necessarily mean that they can't write. Of course being a good writer is 'more important' if you want to make it in the music industry, some people just understand the right buttons to push to make a song appeal to people, and some don't. IMO. At the most basic level, you could even say that the notes played hardly matter as long as they're played to an interesting and solid groove.

 

[Matyrker]

Really great replies, guys. I have really enjoyed reading what other people have had to say about this.

 

[Locrain]

You need to be a skilled musician to be a good song writer. But you don't need to be a good song writer to be a skilled musician.

Without further qualification, this is nonsense. There is an endless list of timeless classics written by people who who could barely hack together a few chords.

 

[Blasphemer]

I think you need to look at which you're personally trying to accomplish before you can definitively decide.

Do you want to write music for your own band? Do you want to express what's inside of you through music? Do you want to get a band together and write songs and play live/record albums? If you're trying to do those, then being a better songwriter is definitely a more desirable trait to have than technical ability. That said, I've always believed that you should be as technically proficient as you need to be to write what's inside of you that needs to come out. If you just want to write Bob Dylan tunes, then playing like Vai isn't really a necessity, but the opposite works equally as well. You can't write Necrophagist tunes and only be able to physically play CCR songs.

On the other hand, maybe you just want a to be a session musician/studio cat. Maybe you just want to hook up with a touring band that already has songs written, but you just need to be able to play them, and play them better than everyone else who is trying out. If these are the case, then you don't necessarily need to write an amazing song, but you damn well be pretty great at your instrument. Once again, both definitely helps, but I've seen plenty of dudes come through the venues I work at who seem to fit into the latter category of hired gun for the tour. The songs are written, half the time they barely have solos, and they're there to just play and not screw up, not to rewrite the encore song to have a "better feel".

My 2 cents