Djenty Fusion Modes

[frankentop]

Hi Guys,

Have been listening to a lot of Chimpspanner / Allan Holdsworth lately and noticed a similar sound in the way they solo - especially Supererrorgation / Bad Code on the Chimp Spanner album.

Any idea what kinds of modes are being used for this fusion like sound? Am pretty familiar with major scale modes and was hoping to get a few jazzy ones under my belt - there are just so many it'd be good to know where to start...

Thanks!

 

[KoenDercksen]

Well there's only 7 modes...

Depends largely on a lot of chromaticism and the way they phrase, and following the chords they solo over. When the progression is weird and not in one key, that already gives a fusioney feel...

Also, combining modes can give a cool effect. For example lydian and mixolydian together sound awesome (#4 and b7).

 

[frankentop]

Ok, Lydian Flat 7 it is

Will give it a go later. Have attached it in F if anyone is interested.

 

[Defsan]

Depends largely on a lot of chromaticism and the way they phrase, and following the chords they solo over.

This.
You can also try the Mixolydian mode with a flat 5. And plenty of chromaticism. Frankly, trust your ear and intuition on that one.

 

[NovaReaper]

Try out some melodic minor modes. I like Phrygian dominant and superlocrian.

 

[skeletor88]

Well there's only 7 modes...

Depends largely on a lot of chromaticism and the way they phrase, and following the chords they solo over. When the progression is weird and not in one key, that already gives a fusioney feel...

Also, combining modes can give a cool effect. For example lydian and mixolydian together sound awesome (#4 and b7).

7 modes to a scale that is.

Major / Natural Minor share the same modes just in different orders.

Harmonic Minor has it's individual 7 modes, and so does Melodic Minor.

Check out the melodic minor modes for some pretty interesting harmony. Study some of Greg Howe's altered (also known as super locrian) licks to see how to make them work over certain progressions and substitutions.

Enjoy!!

 

[celticelk]

Try out some melodic minor modes. I like Phrygian dominant and superlocrian.

Phrygian dominant is a mode of harmonic minor, not melodic minor - that b3 interval between the b2 and the 3 is a dead giveaway.

 

[Pascal-Darrell]

Melodic Minor , Lydian b7 and Mixo #11 is all the same scale guys

starting from the fourth of melodic minor you have Lydian b7 or Mixo#11, depends on how you like to call it

just sayin....

 

[celticelk]

Try adding one "out" note to a four-note arpeggio - that can make for some very interesting sounds, while staying close to patterns that you already know. One that I've been messing around with lately is adding the b9 to a major-7th arpeggio; it's fun to play 1-3-5-7-b9 and then drop back down a half-step to the root, creating a half-step below-above approach. That's also cool as a replacement for a m7b5 arpeggio over a dominant-7th chord - build your M7b9 arpeggio off the 3 of the dominant, and you get a combined dominant-9th-#9 tonality. As Andy Partridge says, "Surprise yourself! Hurt the neighbors!"

[EDIT: build that M7b9 off the b3 of the dominant, rather. My bad - posting before coffee.]

 

[Ralyks]

Try the Whole Tone scale as well. Holdsworth liked making use of that.

 

[celticelk]

Check out the melodic minor modes for some pretty interesting harmony. Study some of Greg Howe's altered (also known as super locrian) licks to see how to make them work over certain progressions and substitutions.

And of course, once you've gotten to altered, you just have to add one note to get the half-whole diminished scale, which opens up some interesting possibilities.

For an easy start to altered, I often refer back to this Alex Skolnick lesson: YouTube - Alex Skolnick

 

[NovaReaper]

Phrygian dominant is a mode of harmonic minor, not melodic minor - that b3 interval between the b2 and the 3 is a dead giveaway.

Woops, meant Lydian dominant anyway.

 

[frankentop]

Try out some melodic minor modes. I like Phrygian dominant and superlocrian.

Thanks for the replies. Had a look at some of the melodic minor modes last night.... Seems to be what I am looking for - combining that with switching scale half way through a chord progression gives a pretty cool effect.

Win.

Melodic Minor With Modal Spellings and Chord Scales

 

[Darknut]

Melodic Minor , Lydian b7 and Mixo #11 is all the same scale guys

starting from the fourth of melodic minor you have Lydian b7 or Mixo#11, depends on how you like to call it

just sayin....

Music is full of redundancies, its funny watching people get lost in them.

Now watch arguments pop up about whether or not F flat/E sharp or C flat/B sharp exists. "IT SAYS THEY EXIST ON WIKI! IT SAYS THEY EXIST ON WIKI!"

 

[Skyblue]

Music is full of redundancies, its funny watching people get lost in them.

Now watch arguments pop up about whether or not F flat/E sharp or C flat/B sharp exists. "IT SAYS THEY EXIST ON WIKI! IT SAYS THEY EXIST ON WIKI!"

Reminds me of the time my Music History teacher told us G# is higher than Ab.
crashed all our years of learning music in 1 sentence

 

[Darknut]

Reminds me of the time my Music History teacher told us G# is higher than Ab.
crashed all our years of learning music in 1 sentence

That seems like a good way to fuck with someone lol. You could be like "dude, it is like .0001 higher in frequency, I don't care what you say."

I bet I'd get punched if I said that shit to my old high school band teacher. That dude took shit way too seriously.

 

[EdgeC]

That seems like a good way to fuck with someone lol. You could be like "dude, it is like .0001 higher in frequency, I don't care what you say."

I bet I'd get punched if I said that shit to my old high school band teacher. That dude took shit way too seriously.

I found the attached an interesting read. Has a lot of the maths behind the theory.

Lydian-Dominant Theory for Improvisation