Do Jacksons sound worse than ESPs?

[budda]

Lots of good info amid the mud in this thread.

I am sure Mike is groaning when he checks in after work .

Maybe I should make an a/b video and see if I can generate enough clicks to buy a coffee

 

[CapinCripes]

There a ridiculous number of variables that would effect tone.

TOM vs Floyd, woods of the same species varies greatly, setup, electronics / pot values, strings, pick attack, horizons being archtop vs flattop soloists, even pickups vary a bit between different examples of the same model, different guitars of the same model can sound radically different, sounds that are not what you are looking for for one context can shine in another, if it's a Jackson or esp is the most inconsequential thing on earth when it comes to sound.
I had a esp standard series m-2 for a while. It was a dead plank. No mojo and acoustically dead. It happens. Would I buy another esp? Absolutely. One example doesn't define a brand.

 

[budda]

4 pages and no one mentioned pick specs, just attack?

Also NSLALP

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Yeah I don't disagree but that's why I made the thread, to hear from others who maybe have played more guitars. I want Jacksons to be good but they always seem underwhelming and I wonder if there's something inherent about them that doesn't work for me or if it's just bad individual guitars/comparing trems to fixed bridges etc.

I'm talking about LTD and MiJ Jackson, but one of my best sounding guitars I miss to death is a DKMG. And I had several LTDs superstrats that sounded dark and muffled like the Jackson in the video. Like I said, things just vary. By the sounds of it, the stars aligned with that specific ESP.

 

[Emperoff]

Same model, same year, same neck, same woods, same everything.

The one on the right just sounds better acoustically. Has more mids and sounds sweeter overall. It is also noticeably lighter.

So... Do Jacksons sound worse than Jacksons?

 

[manu80]

Really stunned about this thread title…
Anything can sound better than something else, Just so subjective….I like Jackson better than ESP so for me, I'm sure something else than the sound will paly part in my choice between the 2....
Sorry just don't get it.... not trolling or else but....
Same with amp. I have a laboga hector and a AMT stonehead. One is valve, the other is solid state. Same guitar to test 2 amps, I can tell you the AMT buries the laboga. To me. Still , a friend of mine like the Laboga better...Go figure....

 

[TheBolivianSniper]

The worst sounding guitars I've owned have been BC Rich. The best sounding and playing guitar I own is also a BC Rich. My $300 Hondo took the piss out of most guitars I've played. The MIJ ESP I owned sounded radically different than the USA Jackson that replaced it.

Literally the name on the headstock means nothing, it's about how it plays. Electronics are 95% of the sound. I took my Ormsby from being a clanky djent machine to being a wall of sound with a pickup and pot swap. When someone says it's pretty much all in the electronics, it's true. My Stealth is one of the most disgustingly bass heavy and dark guitars I've played and it has a trem. Wood and construction variations account for differences between guitars.

Les Pauls are naturally dark? No, my mahogany and maple with ebony MIJ Burny LC70RR was really bright and twangy and had a Kahler on it too. I had a schecter c1 evil twin that sounded really low mid focused and was tamed by the fishman in it. My current c1 evil twin is a pound and a half heavier and is nothing but high mids and treble.

 

[Dr. Caligari]

Ok so a lot of people mention that a lot of factors affect tone and guitars can differ within the same brand and even the same model.

Look, I don't disagree at all.

But even then I don't think it's thaaat much of a stretch to think that certain brands might have certain sounds to them based on how they make their guitars. That doesn't have to mean all their guitars sound the absolute same, but they might still have what one could identify as a "Jackson sound", "ESP sound" and so on.

I'm convinced this is the case with acoustic guitars. Compare Martin, Gibson and Taylor. They totally sound different because of construction aspects like how the neck joint is done, where the neck meets the body, bracing pattern etc. etc. etc.

I think this could be the case for electrics also, just not quite on the same level as acoustics. For example each brand routes their bridge pickup in a certain location, which is often (but not always) pretty consistent between models. That for sure makes a difference to the tone, and that's just one thing. Maybe one brand dries the wood for way longer than another brand. Maybe they do something else different compared to each other.

And look, we're talking subtle differences here. One guy didn't even hear the difference in the youtube clip. If you're a person who just grabs a guitar and plays without thinking a lot about the tone, then maybe this thread isn't for you. Nothing wrong with that, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way at all.

 

[mastapimp]

But even then I don't think it's thaaat much of a stretch to think that certain brands might have certain sounds to them based on how they make their guitars. That doesn't have to mean all their guitars sound the absolute same, but they might still have what one could identify as a "Jackson sound", "ESP sound" and so on.

You can certainly try and get a "tele" sound in country and a long sustaining les paul tone in rock, but nobody can listen to a sound clip and say "oh, this is definitely an ESP/JACKSON/FENDER/GIBSON"...

With the right hardware, pickups and electronics, you can get these sounds regardless of who makes the guitar. If you can listen to a blind soundclip on youtube and definitively pick out the guitar manufacturer, then I'd believe you. Until then, you're fooling yourself.

 

[Dr. Caligari]

You can certainly try and get a "tele" sound in country and a long sustaining les paul tone in rock, but nobody can listen to a sound clip and say "oh, this is definitely an ESP/JACKSON/FENDER/GIBSON"...

With the right hardware, pickups and electronics, you can get these sounds regardless of who makes the guitar. If you can listen to a blind soundclip on youtube and definitively pick out the guitar manufacturer, then I'd believe you. Until then, you're fooling yourself.

Well I mean yeah in a blind test I think it would be pretty much impossible of course. But there could still be subtle differences there.

 

[Dr. Caligari]

Maybe though, if you had a really good blind test in a controlled environment you could actually do it. Like, get a better hit rate than 50% at least. Listening to a random clip and guessing brand, no. But comparing back to back in a controlled environment? Maybe I think.

 

[narad]

I don't think. But it seems like you're letting your prior belief sway the entire argument. I mean, do you want us to present you with a controlled environment with dozens of ESPs and Jacksons to guess at blindly? I've had plenty here over the years. You can't tell. There are some specific model differences (soloists vs horizons), but if you let me dial in the amp again when switching, there's no way you'd be able to tell IMO. I couldn't.

 

[Dr. Caligari]

I don't think. But it seems like you're letting your prior belief sway the entire argument. I mean, do you want us to present you with a controlled environment with dozens of ESPs and Jacksons to guess at blindly? I've had plenty here over the years. You can't tell. There are some specific model differences (soloists vs horizons), but if you let me dial in the amp again when switching, there's no way you'd be able to tell IMO. I couldn't.

I just feel like most people dismiss the question pretty quickly. I don't necessarily want to convince anyone that I'm right (I don't even have a firm belief in the matter, I just want to understand things better) but I do want to convince people to at least consider the hypothesis. Maybe that makes me come off too strong.

And look, you obviously have played a bunch of guitars. You're the kind of person I'm looking for here but you're not giving me what I want, only hints of it. What you say about the guitars in this post and about soloist vs horizon, that's the kind of stuff I was hoping for from this thread but I'm not getting much of it.

Maybe I phrased the opening post all wrong...

 

[marke]

Anything affects everything. It's just that a lot of things are not quantifiable in any meaningful way. Marketing has made us to think tonewood affects more than, say, string gauge, but I really doubt that's the case. In fact tonewood might play an extremely small role in a solid body electric guitar tone. Not important. The point is, until there is some science behind it, you can pretty much go with the feel. YOUR Jackson sounds worse than YOUR ESP. Any further conclusions are a mistake. PS. I liked that comment about electronics, swapping those can indeed measurably affect tone.

 

[Robslalaina]

Thinking that a Jackson sounds like a Jackson because it's a Jackson, or that an Ibanez sounds like an Ibanez because it's an Ibanez, which is different than a Jackson... isn't that, in a way, falling for the brands' advertizing bs? Like how apparently nothing sounded like a Gibson until Billy Gibbons started playing Tokai...

 

[eaeolian]

Same model, same year, same neck, same woods, same everything.

The one on the right just sounds better acoustically. Has more mids and sounds sweeter overall. It is also noticeably lighter.

So... Do Jacksons sound worse than Jacksons?

Try shimming the nut (just a hair) on the left one. Mine was a teensy bit low on my green swirl when I got it, and raising the nut opened it right up.
I so wish I could deal with recessed trems.

 

[DarthV]

Want to test? Swap the pickups/pots/wiring between guitars.

Unless you're comparing the acoustic sound of electric guitars, but I'd ask WHY?

 

[eaeolian]

Want to test? Swap the pickups/pots/wiring between guitars.

Unless you're comparing the acoustic sound of electric guitars, but I'd ask WHY?

It does make a difference. A small one.

 

[4Eyes]

it depends... on who plays them

 

[JediMasterThrash]

How you pick the string has as big or bigger impact than the pickups. Assuming the pots are the 500k+ everything else on teh guitar mostly doesn't matter.

ANd even for a pickup, pickup height (or action of strings above pickups) dramatically affects the tone probably more than a pup-swap in many cases. Even raising or lowering a pickup 1/16 in can dramatically affect tone.

Buuut, the construction and hardware will affect how you pick, so things like body contour, bridge, fret wire, scallops, etc will affect tone if it affects how you pick or fret.

For instance, palm muting sounds way better on an OFR bridge than an Edge bridge just because of how my palm naturally rests on the string saddles.

Fret/neck construction that makes you fingers fret too close to the fret wire can affect tone vs. pressing the note centered in the fret.

PLaying with an Ibanez "the players pick" vs. a stone pick vs. a tortex has a whole different tone due to how it's picked and the edge of the pick makes the initial scrape. personally only ibanez players picks, big stubby, or jazz-III for me, all other picks are noisy/scapey or dull in comparison.

Elixers vs. cobalts vs. regular strings sound very different. If you have regular strins, eveyr day after you put them on the tone completely changes. I personally love cobalts on everything now, great tone that doesn't change.

Action (height of strings above frets) dramatically affects tone, as it affects how hard you work to fret, how out of tune it gets when you fret, how easy it is for the string to dampen out, etc.

Other construction issues, such as the nut and bridge, could cause "wolftones" or dampen sustain out, which will affect tone. I've got a a guitar with dead spots on the high E from the nut and bridge I haven't figured out how to solve yet.

Body construction will affect how you hold the guitar, which affects where on the string and the angle you pick.


But all these things boil down to the picking/fretting the strings, or the pickups themselves.