Do Jacksons sound worse than ESPs?

[Lionsden]

I think the pickup and pickup height are the greatest determining factor in tone of an electric and ESP vs Jackson has nothing to do with it. This video here shows a pretty solid comparison at how the pickup and its height determines tonality more so than whatever it’s installed. No, it’s not absolutely bullet proof (nothing is) but this eliminates a lot of variables and still makes a very solid case for how the brand, tonewood, etc don’t really change the tone. Of course these things all help determine consistency, dependability and durability but in terms of tone it’s almost all pickup and height.

 

[eaeolian]

^ That video proves a lot of things false that are discussed in this thread. As I said before, I think he's hearing the trem taking the attack off the notes - and the picking is definitely different.

 

[ExpatZ]

I'm talking about the higher end production guitars here, like ESP standard series and USA or high end Japanese Jacksons.

I have some experience with ESP, having owned a couple of them. But I only have one Jackson. I don't think my Jackson is so great, and this thought occurred to me that maybe in general Jacksons don't sound as good as ESPs, for whatever reason.

I found this comparison on youtube between two guitars, and I think the Jackson sounds really bad compared to the ESP. It could be because of the trem vs fixed bridge, but I don't know. The Jackson sounds really woolly and lacking in definition compared to the ESP, and it sort of reminds me of my own Jackson.

What do you guys think? Can any generalizations be made about ESP vs Jackson tone?

Yeah, no.Electric guitars only sound as good as their electronics so not really.
If you are buying a guitar based on it's stock pickups and electronics you are limiting yourself to the extreme.
When looking at a guitar aside from the usual visual aesthetics what you are looking for is feel, how does it feel on your body, is the neck comfortable, are the frets of a type you like to play on, is the guitar mechanically sound, is the finish what you expect of the price point you are looking at, is the bridge what you are looking for. That's it.
The sound is what you make it when you replace the pots/cap with high end replacements and drop in a set of pickups that has the sound you want.
Electric guitars don't have a sound, their electronics do.

 

[mmr007]

Yeah no. The electronics in the guitar are not all that matters...how the amp and pickups sound TOGETHER is important and you can get a $15 used humbucker to sound better than a set of BKP if the amp is dialed in to maximize the cheaper pickup. Also, I hate the "tone wood" argument only because there is no such thing as a universal Alder or Mahogany sound but each guitar is unique. I have six of the same guitar and each sounds different. I sometimes swap a set of pickups into numerous guitars and get way different results so the guitar body greatly affects the sound

And finally tone IS in your hands. I know I hate my tone...when my fingers are cold and I'm not warmed up yet and then 20 minutes later I love my tone because I can strangle the notes and get the most out of my fingers interaction with the strings.

I guess in a way if the OP doesn't favor Jackson necks and is never comfortable he might fail to get the tone he seeks from a competitor that he is more comfortable with but that will vary for each person and it cannot be said that one brand outshines another on tone not affected by player interaction.

 

[trem licking]

This thread has gotten way too much attention haha, from myself as well. Shut up n write a song

 

[Dr. Caligari]

Yeah, no.Electric guitars only sound as good as their electronics so not really.
If you are buying a guitar based on it's stock pickups and electronics you are limiting yourself to the extreme.
When looking at a guitar aside from the usual visual aesthetics what you are looking for is feel, how does it feel on your body, is the neck comfortable, are the frets of a type you like to play on, is the guitar mechanically sound, is the finish what you expect of the price point you are looking at, is the bridge what you are looking for. That's it.
The sound is what you make it when you replace the pots/cap with high end replacements and drop in a set of pickups that has the sound you want.
Electric guitars don't have a sound, their electronics do.

Agree to disagree I guess. I'm 100% sure that pickups and electronics are not all that matters to the tone of an electric guitar. Construction, hardware etc. makes a difference to the tone. This I am 100% sure about.

 

[Dr. Caligari]

This thread has gotten way too much attention haha, from myself as well. Shut up n write a song

That's a fair point but if you knew how much time I spend writing and analyzing music I think you'd give me a break and let me worry about tone a bit.

 

[nickgray]

Construction, hardware etc. makes a difference to the tone

Even if it does, the far more important point is you have lots of other ways to alter the tone.

- Overdrive pedals and/or eq before the gain stage
- Eq after the gain stage
- Poweramp saturation, presence, resonance
- Cab size
- Speakers
- Specific type of microphone
- Number of microphones
- Positioning of microphones in 3 dimensions
- The room itself

This all happens before the mic hits the mic pre. There's more stuff still - you might use and old school pre that saturates. You'll almost certainly eq the miced cab tone in some way. You might apply additional processing like multiband compression or dynamic eq to get rid of low end mud. After all of that gigantic chain, the tone that you're seeking is the kind of tone that will work in the context of a mix. Not the kind of tone that works for when you're just playing by yourself.

A lot of guitarists just don't realize that guitar tone is not their domain, it's the audio engineer's business. The audio engineer is the guy who gets you good tone, not you. The tone that your average guitarist worries so much about is the tone for practicing. All the tones that you've heard on albums are not practice tones, they're tones sculpted by audio engineers that fit in a mix.

 

[Dr. Caligari]

Even if it does, the far more important point is you have lots of other ways to alter the tone.

- Overdrive pedals and/or eq before the gain stage
- Eq after the gain stage
- Poweramp saturation, presence, resonance
- Cab size
- Speakers
- Specific type of microphone
- Number of microphones
- Positioning of microphones in 3 dimensions
- The room itself

This all happens before the mic hits the mic pre. There's more stuff still - you might use and old school pre that saturates. You'll almost certainly eq the miced cab tone in some way. You might apply additional processing like multiband compression or dynamic eq to get rid of low end mud. After all of that gigantic chain, the tone that you're seeking is the kind of tone that will work in the context of a mix. Not the kind of tone that works for when you're just playing by yourself.

A lot of guitarists just don't realize that guitar tone is not their domain, it's the audio engineer's business. The audio engineer is the guy who gets you good tone, not you. The tone that your average guitarist worries so much about is the tone for practicing. All the tones that you've heard on albums are not practice tones, they're tones sculpted by audio engineers that fit in a mix.

But... I'm the engineer

And Idk, but I feel like a good sounding guitar is a pretty important part of the chain. If the guitar sounds wonky then that's hard to compensate for, that's how I think about it. It's somehow the base on which everything else is built.

 

[nickgray]

If the guitar sounds wonky then that's hard to compensate for

Well, if you have high frets that choke out some of the notes - yes, something like that would be impossible to fix. Guitars should be in tip-top technical shape, that goes without saying.

On the other hand, if by wonky you mean that pickups don't sound right in a black limba body, I rest my case.

 

[Dr. Caligari]

Well, if you have high frets that choke out some of the notes - yes, something like that would be impossible to fix. Guitars should be in tip-top technical shape, that goes without saying.

On the other hand, if by wonky you mean that pickups don't sound right in a black limba body, I rest my case.

Like if I had the ESP and the Jackson from the clip to record with. I don't think that I could make that Jackson sound as good as the ESP by messing with other parts of the chain.

 

[JediMasterThrash]

For the most part you can adjust a pickup to match the AMP with an EQ/OD pedal, just adjust the lows/highs, or add a couple dB boost to a weaker pup. But the pickup itself often has qualities you can't fix with any EQ/OD/amp settings. Missing frequencies or sustain you just can't recreated after it's left the guitar. Had this many times. But often all I need to do is adjust the bass knob on my OD pedal to jump from a bass-heavy pup to a djenty-tight pup, and maybe up the level knob if it's weak.

 

[nickgray]

Like if I had the ESP and the Jackson from the clip to record with. I don't think that I could make that Jackson sound as good as the ESP by messing with other parts of the chain.

They're near identical sounding, whatever tiny difference they have it completely meaningless. You will never, ever, ever hear it in a mix. They sound lousy too - there's clipping, they're really muddy sounding (too much low end), you can hear the unplugged guitar bleed in with the miced sound too.

Sorry, I just cannot for the life of me understand why are you so curious about that clip. Not only they're virtually identical, but the recording is technically bad, and the tone itself is no good either.

I highly recommend grabbing mutlitracks of professionally produced albums, this is hands down the most helpful thing for learning production.

 

[xzacx]

“Tone is in our hands” is a nice platitude and all, but it’s demonstrably false. The same person playing through two different rigs/guitars will have two different tones. Technique is in the hands, and it’ll obviously impact how what’s being played is translated, but the essence of the tone is in the gear.

 

[jaxadam]

“Tone is in our hands” is a nice platitude and all, but it’s demonstrably false. The same person playing through two different rigs/guitars will have two different tones. Technique is in the hands, and it’ll obviously impact how what’s being played is translated, but the essence of the tone is in the gear.

 

[JediMasterThrash]

Actually the video demonstrated that, besides pickup and pickup height, "tone in your hands" was the only other thing that actually affected tone. The angle, strength, and attack of how you pick, how close to the bridge or neck you pikc, how firm you fret, how close to the fret wire you fret, how you vibrato, how you pinch and tap. Dramatic affects on tone. Not to mention how well you mute the other strings.

 

[Dr. Caligari]

They're near identical sounding, whatever tiny difference they have it completely meaningless. You will never, ever, ever hear it in a mix. They sound lousy too - there's clipping, they're really muddy sounding (too much low end), you can hear the unplugged guitar bleed in with the miced sound too.

Sorry, I just cannot for the life of me understand why are you so curious about that clip. Not only they're virtually identical, but the recording is technically bad, and the tone itself is no good either.

I highly recommend grabbing mutlitracks of professionally produced albums, this is hands down the most helpful thing for learning production.

It was the best example I could find that was close to my own guitars and I thought it mirrored the problem I have with my Jackson. I want that fucker to sound good but it just doesn't.

 

[budda]

It was the best example I could find that was close to my own guitars and I thought it mirrored the problem I have with my Jackson. I want that fucker to sound good but it just doesn't.

Then sell or trade it. Done.

 

[Dr. Caligari]

Then sell or trade it. Done.

For another Jackson or an ESP? Hmmmmmm

 

[eaeolian]

It was the best example I could find that was close to my own guitars and I thought it mirrored the problem I have with my Jackson. I want that fucker to sound good but it just doesn't.

So my thought would be that you try shimming the Floyd nut before you trade it/sell it, or maybe get it Plek'd? I'm not going to deny that Jackson has put out some dogs but I don't think that's the case here.