Double/Quad tracking in professional albums

[TheProgWay]

Hey folks,

So this kinda has me thinking. In pro metal albums say with 1 guitarist, lets take Dream Theater for example. How does the double tracking work? Would JP actually play the same rhythm twice like we normally do in our home-studios? Or would he just get a DI recorded of 1 take and feed it to two or a bajillion different amps/amp-settings and mix/match?

Because rhythm tracks could get insanely complex and hitting everything so tight that even our trained guitar ears can't really tell easily that its 2 takes just gets me thinking. I don't mean to just talk about DT, its just an example.

 

[sol niger 333]

Ideally I'd get a really good left and right take. Then reamp for 3 and 4

 

[JStraitiff]

I would say he plays it twice. I imagine there is some method using delays or something that would work but part of the reason double tracking thickens up a mix is because of the differences in syncopation and attack. John Petrucci makes me sick. He probably has to consciously make changes in his attack to have them not be identical:

 

[theo]

^ He probably just plays 15 milliseconds behind the beat... EXACTLY 15 milliseconds.

 

[bhakan]

<Petrucci Nerd Activate!>
For Petrucci, he does both. On album, he does two separate rhythm takes, but live he has a delay set up in his rig that delays the one side of a stereo rig about 7ms (if I remember correctly) and leaves the other untouched.

For recording though, two separate takes are definitely better.

 

[Chris Finster]

Sounds like two to me. Ive messed with doing 2x2 and even 3x3...it doesnt get bigger, it just gets looser. I mean sure you can add various colors doing this like each side gets a marshall and each side gets a mesa or something. But really it sounds right imo to have 1x1. -Chris

Jut so im clear 1x1 = one independent take per side.

 

[KingAenarion]

Depends on the guitarist doesn't it...

I've worked with guitarists who couldn't play 1 single rhythm part perfectly... so yea...

 

[TheProgWay]

That is pretty sick if players are this tight for complex rhythm parts as well. I guess that's what they're paid for haha

 

[sol niger 333]

Quad tracking can be done well. But you must be aware of every nuance of each particular take and replicate it. Otherwise it will be a wall of mushy crap

 

[ddtonfire]

Yeah, Petrucci does 2 takes and pans them L/R, except for a few parts in a few songs. For Awake, he quad tracked, twice with a Rectifier and Twice with his Mark IIC+, then panned those respectively.

 

[The Uncreator]

Everybody here is wrong.

That dude just yells at his equipment until they do his bidding, duh....

 

[sojorel]

Randy Rhoads used to triple track, I think.
L/R and a third in the centre (both l/r).

I read an interview with Butch Vig who said it was extremely difficult to do proper double tracking as very few guitarists are precise enough. He mostly just duplicated a single playthrough.

 

[C2Aye]

I've found quad-tracking to be a bit excessive and double tracking to be more than enough, which involves playing the same part twice. Then again, I'm no professional by any stretch of the imagination

I'm assuming that everybody would just play it twice in the studio, as I don't think any professional studio engineer would sanction just copy pasting the same track to the left and right channels with a bit of temporal offset as there are always phase issues associated with it. As a result, it always just sounds a bit iffy so playing the track twice is the way to go. (Of course, there are ways around it but seriously, just play the thing twice). Guys like Petrucci would nail the takes fine, and sometimes he even doubles his leads.

 

[MF_Kitten]

recording one guitar take and reamping it for the other side doesn't sound like you'd think, unfortunately. You still tend to get a "centred" feel, with slightly different saturation and stuff for each side. It rarely sounds like it's dual tracked at all.

It's almost always done by recording it twice, since the effect is caused by the other side not having the same sound waves, and not being identical. This is the most important part of it.

Quad tracking means dual tracking AGAIN. some like to pan the two dual tracks differently, with one pair panned slightly closer to the middle, while the other one is hard panned left and right. like 80/80 and 100/100.

Others like to pan it entirely hard left and right for both tracks.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Guitar Player Magazine February 2012 interview, he shares in detail.
He does a take and pans it left, he does another take and pans it right, backs off of the gain a tad for both. Then any additional overdubs are treated individually from there.

If you do add a 3 & 4, back off on the gain on them too, you'll have more clarity and a bigger guitar sound in the long run.

 

[Rick]

Guitar Player Magazine February 2012 interview, he shares in detail.
He does a take and pans it left, he does another take and pans it right, backs off of the gain a tad for both. Then any additional overdubs are treated individually from there.

If you do add a 3 & 4, back off on the gain on them too, you'll have more clarity and a bigger guitar sound in the long run.

HOLY CRAP, IT'S TFS!

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Wassup!?!?