Dream Theater

[beneharris]

I really liked Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds, but they're definitely inconsistent. Prophets of War and The Shattered Fortress are unlistenable messes.

Those are the best songs off either of those cds

 

[Avedas]

Those are the best songs off either of those cds

I wish I knew why DT decided to write a bunch of songs that sound like Muse, because I can't stand Muse.

 

[beneharris]

I wish I knew why DT decided to write a bunch of songs that sound like Muse, because I can't stand Muse.

I'm truly not trying to argue with you here, because Prophets of War was definitely a Muse song, Portnoy said as much, but Shattered Fortress?

Also, in my defense, when I saw Prophets of War, I read "Ministry of Lost Souls".

 

[Avedas]

I'm truly not trying to argue with you here, because Prophets of War was definitely a Muse song, Portnoy said as much, but Shattered Fortress?

Also, in my defense, when I saw Prophets of War, I read "Ministry of Lost Souls".

I was referring to Prophets, yeah, and some of the stuff off Octavarium as well.

 

[thesnowdog]

Related/unrelated.... am I the only one that regularly sees Myung playing his ass off and he's either buried in the mix or the output you're hearing sounds a lot less elaborate than his fingers are implying?

Bass ->

 

[groverj3]

I really liked Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds, but they're definitely inconsistent. Prophets of War and The Shattered Fortress are unlistenable messes.

Prophets of War is good, The Shattered Fortress is the least interesting of the 12-step suite. It was all just reused riffs from the past songs. It's not bad, but also doesn't do much for me.

In the Presence of Enemies Part 1 got me into the bad so I definitely like that album more than most fans.

 

[TheShreddinHand]

Thanks for posting those FII demos. Just finished listening to them and I loved every minute of it, but I'm a self-proclaimed DT fanboy. I do have some of the older DT fanclub CDs laying around but never got these releases MP did on Ytsejam records. Wish I'd bought them then!

 

[wankerness]

That Metropolis II demo was interesting, I was not even aware of its existence. It starts out with Overture 1928 and Strange Deja Vu, has a few snippets of Dance of Eternity, and then pretty much just devolves into the most directionless soloing I've ever heard from them! It's kind of funny.

 

[musicaldeath]

Love that version of Raise the Knife. Those demos are great, thanks for sharing!

 

[Soya]

Prophets of War is good, The Shattered Fortress is the least interesting of the 12-step suite. It was all just reused riffs from the past songs. It's not bad, but also doesn't do much for me.

Not to be pedantic but I imagine that was kind of the point, being the last song in the suite.

 

[Herrick]

Related/unrelated.... am I the only one that regularly sees Myung playing his ass off and he's either buried in the mix or the output you're hearing sounds a lot less elaborate than his fingers are implying?

Yeah he's usually buried in the live stuff I've seen/heard.

Has anyone else listened to the Demo version of Falling into Infinity?

I've only heard the demo version a couple times. I liked it more than Falling Into Infinity. I hate Falling Into Infinity less than when I bought it years ago but it never really grew on me so it was nice to have this demo version. It's a shame the band couldn't make the album the way they wanted to.

There's an interview with Petrucci from a couple years ago claiming there was a misconception about outside influences on the band's songwriting and how they really made the album they wanted to make. BUTT past comments from Portnoy and LaBrie contradict Petrucci's claim.

 

[Lukhas]

Petrucci and LaBrie doing their best to reassure everyone.



Apparently "the CabClone™®© on the Boogie™®© sound unbelievable"...

 

[Sermo Lupi]

I'm not really sure what your making fun of? They were just describing the demo setup and how things are run through the board; saying the cab clones sound good went hand and hand with the point that the 'scratch demos' were actually pretty high quality. But the demo setup is only being used to sketch out the Pro Tools sessions so that everything can be recorded properly in the traditional way. Which I'd imagine JP is using real cabs and mics for.

Call it product placement if you want, but people have been geeking out about every tiny detail of John's gear since at least 1995. Seems to me he was just answering a question, not trying to name drop products.

 

[groverj3]

Didn't they do live demos for Train of Thought before going into the studio to record for real? Seems like a similar situation here.

 

[Lukhas]

I'm not really sure what your making fun of?

The CabClone is the product the Andertons' YouTube channel had to demo a second time with the assistance of a Mesa rep because they were not impressed with it the first time, to put it mildly. The reviews are far from being glowing, nor are any of the demos available. Maybe Petrucci honestly thinks it sounds great and I'll give him the benefice of doubt on that matter. Hell, I don't have any issues with him placing products either, it's his livelihood after all. I'll even admit I've never bought a CabClone. Well, sure as hell isn't going to happen anytime soon to be honest...

 

[StevenC]

The CabClone is the product the Andertons' YouTube channel had to demo a second time with the assistance of a Mesa rep because they were not impressed with it the first time, to put it mildly. The reviews are far from being glowing, nor are any of the demos available. Maybe Petrucci honestly thinks it sounds great and I'll give him the benefice of doubt on that matter. Hell, I don't have any issues with him placing products either, it's his livelihood after all. I'll even admit I've never bought a CabClone. Well, sure as hell isn't going to happen anytime soon to be honest...

Maybe I'm mistaken, but wasn't part of the deal with the Twosie that it's got a newer, better version of the CabClone from the stand alone, and that people actually like that one?

 

[Sermo Lupi]

The CabClone is the product the Andertons' YouTube channel had to demo a second time with the assistance of a Mesa rep because they were not impressed with it the first time, to put it mildly. The reviews are far from being glowing, nor are any of the demos available. Maybe Petrucci honestly thinks it sounds great and I'll give him the benefice of doubt on that matter. Hell, I don't have any issues with him placing products either, it's his livelihood after all. I'll even admit I've never bought a CabClone. Well, sure as hell isn't going to happen anytime soon to be honest...

Hadn't heard about any of that, but most of it seems irrelevant. To look at it another way, Petrucci is basically Mesa Boogie's most valuable artist, and they're always giving him new stuff to try out and get his feedback on (for example, search YouTube to see him tinkering with a prototype version of the Mark V:25). He's also never said a bad thing about Mesa Boogie and tends to gush about all of his sponsors.

In light of that, I think it's more plausible to assume that Petrucci is just demoing new Mesa tech as he always does, and is praising it as he always does. I doubt it's to counter any bad reviews from Anderton's or elsewhere, or to fulfill some request of Mesa Boogie to do so. I'm not saying an artist mentioning sponsors isn't business as usual--obviously it is--but I think maybe you're assuming that remark was a bit more Machiavellian than it really is.

 

[Lukhas]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but wasn't part of the deal with the Twosie that it's got a newer, better version of the CabClone from the stand alone, and that people actually like that one?

I didn't hear about it, but it would be nice.

[...] but I think maybe you're assuming that remark was a bit more Machiavellian than it really is.

Nope, not at all. I was just joking about it, putting his opinion in parallel with what is known about the CabClone. If we can't have a bit of fun anymore...

 

[bostjan]

I've only heard the demo version a couple times. I liked it more than Falling Into Infinity. I hate Falling Into Infinity less than when I bought it years ago but it never really grew on me so it was nice to have this demo version. It's a shame the band couldn't make the album the way they wanted to.

There's an interview with Petrucci from a couple years ago claiming there was a misconception about outside influences on the band's songwriting and how they really made the album they wanted to make. BUTT past comments from Portnoy and LaBrie contradict Petrucci's claim.

Maybe I could set the records straight: I think that’s a really big misunderstanding. The label didn’t have an influence on the album. We wrote the kind of album we wanted to write. We went in there with Kevin Shirley, a great friend of mine, and we got really experimental with the songs, you know, how we recorded each song.

I think if you simply listen to the lyrics of most of the album, you can tell that whoever was writing the lyrics (Portnoy) was greatly frustrated with the process. The demos themselves, to me, are evidence that the label made some changes to the songs, as this demo is far more different from the finished product than the other demos.

But I can't say it was the direction *I* wanted the band to go in. We kinda had our hands tied by the label and were in a very vulnerable situation. All of our key people at Elektra had been let go, so we were dealing with all new people who couldn't care less about Dream Theater and would not give us a green light until we played their game and delivered some songs that they could understand. They also would not drop us from the label when we asked them to, so we had no choice but to play their game and hope they were right. They turned out to be wrong and finally came to their senses this time around and let us do things our way. There were a few good songs on Infinity (Just Let Me Breathe, New Millennium, Lines In The Sand), but if we didn't have the label and Kevin Shirley and Desmond Child involved, I would have made a COMPLETELY different record.

I think Petrucci is likely speaking for himself and that perhaps the rest of the band, particularly Portnoy, felt differently.

Petrucci and LaBrie doing their best to reassure everyone.



Apparently "the CabClone™®© on the Boogie™®© sound unbelievable"...

Yeah, I saw that yesterday. Recording everything direct...I think we are seeing a lot more acceptance of that. Of course, the finished product could end up being anything, in terms of how guitar is recorded or reamped or whatever.

The thing is, whether it's Petrucci or Misha or Tosin or whoever, these guys likely make more money through high-profile endorsements than through royalties, so expecting a video from Petrucci where he doesn't mention a product is like expecting a Bill Gates interview without a mention of any Microsoft® Products.

 

[bostjan]

Intro/Outro music in the video is a bit loud, so watch your ears, especially headphones users.

But anyway, Derek seems to sort of acknowledge Portnoy's/LaBrie's narrative without explicitly saying anything.