Dream Theater

[Exchanger]

While I was disappointed by his works on the albums (but in great part due to production issue), this guy is so much more likeable than Portnoy. More mature and dedicated to others more than himself, trying to be a positive force (and a total nerd ). I can see why they picked him : he has the technique and almost no ego (it's a recurring pattern with DT I guess). I hope he can shine through in the next albums (both in writing and sound production). He does sound frustrated at times in this interview.

 

[p0ke]

While I was disappointed by his works on the albums (but in great part due to production issue), this guy is so much more likeable than Portnoy. More mature and dedicated to others more than himself, trying to be a positive force (and a total nerd ). I can see why they picked him : he has the technique and almost no ego (it's a recurring pattern with DT I guess). I hope he can shine through in the next albums (both in writing and sound production). He does sound frustrated at times in this interview.

Yep, he does sound quite frustrated. And yeah, the new albums sound like they could have programmed drums instead of Mangini playing, unfortunately... I don't know about The Astonishing as my attention span just doesn't cut it
But yeah, I've said it a bunch of times but fingers crossed he'll be able to contribute at some point. Seems like a huge waste of talent otherwise.

Oh and yeah, I always thought MP was annoying somehow.

 

[Exchanger]

He's endearing when he talks about his passion for music and DT and some of his tragic experiences, but some other times he comes across as an immature and careless teenager.

 

[DLG]

Mangini is a studio guy who plays other people's music.

That's all he has ever been. why would anyone expect him to become a creative for now?

 

[fps]

I guess it depends on the songs a lot too. You can't do anything over anything if you know what I mean Also I guess Mangini hasn't had much creative input, so the drums are more likely to be composed by JP and are mostly just holding the compositions together. Fingers crossed he'll have at least some input this time around.

Portnoy was able to change up rhythms on things really well. Maybe a strange comparison in some ways but the Mudvayne drummer on LD50 especially was very good at this too, suddenly hitting a different beat or angle.

I'm not sure Mangini's being given much of a creative voice, but also not sure what he'd do with it, as he hasn't been given that creative space that Portnoy carved out for himself - and it feels like DT is very much a band where you have to fight for your space.

 

[bostjan]

Matthew McDonough? I believe he was the only drummer Mudvayne ever had. He's got a similar personality to Portnoy, in some ways. I always got the feeling Mangini was a technician, whereas Portnoy was a creative force. Like anything else, you want the proper tools for the job, and when it comes to songwriting, a creative genius is going to work out better than a technical genius. I actually think that Mangini is not beyond the technical level of Portnoy anyway, but he seems to be maybe more of a corporate-style team player.

 

[wankerness]

I'm pretty sure that if they wanted a creative voice they would have hired one. He got Newstead'd.

Well, maybe, I know Jason eventually got creative and broke out.

IIRC the drummer from LD 50 wrote a bunch of their stuff. Him and the bassist are definitely the ones that kept the songs alive, that guitarist was AWFUL. Their live DVD of that album is shocking.

 

[Sermo Lupi]

I never really understood the technical side of the Portnoy vs. Mangini argument, or at least the relevance of it in any case. Both he and Portnoy have a skill ceiling so high that none of the music Dream Theater plays is going to touch it. It'd be a bit like saying Andy James would be a good replacement for John Petrucci just because he can play certain things faster or cleaner; with Dream Theater, the musical direction has always made the upper extremities of those technical limits a little useless. I think that's true of both Mikes.

It's also worth noting that the discussion of musical input isn't 1:1 here either. Portnoy was co-producer of all of DT's albums along with Petrucci, and thus was responsible not only for his drum parts and whatever songs he wrote, but the creative direction of entire albums as well. Maybe that meant he had a bit of a stranglehold on the band--I know some fans feel that way. But all I'm saying is that this was probably Portnoy's greater contribution to Dream Theater. The fact that he was the guy behind the kit who could actually play all this crazy music they were writing was incidental.

I do think Portnoy's personality worked against him, though. He was always seen as brash, pushy, and perhaps egotistical. So there was always this assumption he was stifling certain members or musical ideas in Dream Theater rather than any other member. On the other hand, Petrucci is soft-spoken, kind, and inoffensive...very few have argued he was as controlling as Portnoy was over the band's direction and sound. But given all that has transpired since Portnoy's departure, I wonder if much of that is actually true, i.e. if appearances really are everything.

 

[bostjan]

From my perspective as a fan, I noted several times that Portnoy was the most extroverted and willing to interact with fans at shows. I could see how that might be taken as being brash and controlling; likewise, I can also sort of see how being brash and controlling might be taken by fans as being extroverted and open with fans.

Being that Portnoy has worked with scores of other professional musicians in dozens of projects, his talent-to-drama ratio must be much greater than one. But yeah, he does seem to get into trouble with his off-the-cuff remarks quite often.

I'm pretty sure that if they wanted a creative voice they would have hired one. He got Newstead'd.

Well, maybe, I know Jason eventually got creative and broke out.

IIRC the drummer from LD 50 wrote a bunch of their stuff. Him and the bassist are definitely the ones that kept the songs alive, that guitarist was AWFUL. Their live DVD of that album is shocking.

"Newstead'd" I think the just about sums it all up.

For me, Ryan was the real star of Mudvayne. That guy is a phenomenal player and seemed super down-to-earth. I have no idea what he's been up to since Mudvayne split up, though. Going along with what you've been saying, learning a Mudvayne song on anything other than guitar is difficulty level 7 or 8, but, on guitar maybe 2 or 3. That's nothing against anyone in the band, I think, since skill requirement to play <> how good a song is.

 

[fps]

"Newstead'd" I think the just about sums it all up.

For me, Ryan was the real star of Mudvayne. That guy is a phenomenal player and seemed super down-to-earth. I have no idea what he's been up to since Mudvayne split up, though. Going along with what you've been saying, learning a Mudvayne song on anything other than guitar is difficulty level 7 or 8, but, on guitar maybe 2 or 3. That's nothing against anyone in the band, I think, since skill requirement to play <> how good a song is.

Released an amaaaazing album with his band Soften The Glare, last year I think - check it out, tasty playing.

 

[p0ke]

He got Newstead'd.

Yeah, true. But I still hope he'd get more involved in the writing process. He'll never be carving out directions for whole albums like MP, but I'm sure he could at least make some parts more interesting. I really enjoyed watching the videos where they're composing Train of Though - the whole band would jam some riff and then stop and throw some ideas around on how the song could progress and then keep going until the song was finished. I thought that was how they always do it, but apparently I was wrong...

 

[p0ke]

By the way. I really don't understand all the hate for Train of Thought. It's different and I guess less progressive than their other albums, but I really like most of it anyway...

I don't recall anyone hating on it here, but it wasn't a long time ago that I read a review (scored 2/10) where it was stated that they're just pretentiously trying to be Metallica and that's it - that kind of review are all over the place. I just don't get it, because like I said, I really like the album ...

 

[tedtan]

I like Train of Thought, too, though it is a bit different from the rest of their catalogue.

 

[scrub]

special place in my heart for Train of Thought..my first introduction to Dream Theater.

 

[wat]

I like train of thought but it's one of those albums fo me where some 9f the otherwise best songs have parts that I just want to skip. the shreddy unison sections like in This Dying Soul and In the Name Of God are just grating to the ears for me. Possibly some of the most unnecessary and unnecessarily long shredding sections in their discography, IMO.

That and the rapping vocals (I forget which song)

But goddamn that album had some epic choruses and riffs.

 

[bostjan]

Train of Thought impressed me when I first picked it up. "In the Name of God" is probably my favourite DT song. It's so poignant and only becoming more relevant every day as political and religious extremism keep gathering more and more momentum. The band cleverly wove together a tapestry of world music influences and emotional lyrics with blistering solos and spacey interludes. It's truly a masterpiece. ...and then there's 5:51, holy shit, is Portnoy playing morse code on his hihats?! ..-----.--.-.......--.-..-....-.-...-.......-----.--.-.......--.-..-....-.-...-..... Sure sounds like morse code [gets out morse code book] No spaces between letters, though, making this a bit of a puzzle...

Check it out guys:


starting at 5:51

First letter is either E (.), I (..), or U (..-). Second letter is either e, a, w, j, t, m, or o, depending on what the first letter is. Third letter makes it start out either Eet, Eem, Eeo, Eat, Eam, Eao, Ewt, Ewm, Ewo, Ejt, Ejm, Ejg, Ejq, Itt, Itm Ito, Imt, Imm, Imo, Iot, Iom, Iog, Ioq, Utt, Utm, Uto, Umt, Umm, Umg, or Umq...

"UOYLHPXHCFHE" maybe..., no, that doesn't mean anything... "IT ON MY SUNDBRN" ... no ... "EAT MY BALLS AND ASS" ...

...



God Dammit!

 

[eightsixboy]

I don't know why anyone would hate on TOT, its such a great album. Yea its different, but so are almost all there albums.

I watched the series of the drummer auditions again last weekend, make me wonder what would have happened if they picked Wildoer instead, I like Mangini but after seeing him live a couple of times now they may as well have had a drum machine with a cut out in his seat, maybe that's a little harsh but he is just soooooo robotic to listen to. Don't know if anyone would agree but I think Mangini should go back to a much simpler kit, its like yeah we get he can do all these crazy things with his hands but I would love to see him just play like a "regular" drummer for once, actually get some feeling and groove in his playing.

 

[Avedas]

ToT is alright, but most the songs are longer than they need to be with a bit too much gratuitous wanking. I bet James got to take half of every night off on the ToT tour though.

 

[The Mirror]

ToT is alright, but most the songs are longer than they need to be with a bit too much gratuitous wanking. I bet James got to take half of every night off on the ToT tour though.

Yep, I agree. ToT was the first big step (after 6DoiT did it in a much smaller scale) towards DT clearly writing Instrumental parts by-the-numbers and just for the sake of it.

Honor Thy Father should at least be 4 minutes short, Endless Sacrifice should be 4 minutes long in it's entirety. Period.

Those two are no longer songs, they are a basis to start guitar/keyboard lead duels.

Just compare that to (yeah, what else) Awake.

What is the longest pure guitar/keyboard shredding part in that? Probably Lie with 2 or 3 minutes (still with vocals between the lead parts).

ToT was the first record that lost the balance between melody, vocals and shredding.

So, this is my answer to all you guys why I don't really like the record itself.

Cut 10-15 minutes of runtime from it and you still have a very proggy metal record that doesn't feel tedious.

 

[Lukhas]

ToT is alright, but most the songs are longer than they need to be with a bit too much gratuitous wanking. I bet James got to take half of every night off on the ToT tour though.

The thing about that is while I don't care about the album at all by itself, I think that on tour and during shows it makes for impressive displays of ability on their respective instruments. Basically I think it works well on tour, especially with a visual representation of how impressive it is, but not by itself on the album. On the records I find it very tiring. That said, it's been a while since John Petrucci especially has displayed as much subtlety in his playing as he did in the mid 90's. Taking for example the extra long solo during "To Live Forever" during the live in Tokyo in 1993. It starts are roughly 33:11.



Time marches on and can't expect everything to remain the same... nor I think they can still do it at all. The few examples of very sappy ballads they've written on the recent records show that all too well.