Drop F on 26.5' scale?

[hawazd77]

Hi, I am very new to this forum, so bear with me or tell me anything if I do something not apt to this forum

Anyway, I just got my new Jackson slattxmg3-7 few months ago, and I really like it! Recently, for my one-man band project, I wanted to tune down my guitar to Drop F (i.e. basically drop Bb from 1st to 6th and an additional F string on the 7th) to experiment some new stuffs. However, I'm not really sure if a 26.5''-scale 7 string can handle such low tuning since my friend who has a Schecter Hellraiser C-7 always complaints about how terrible his schecter sound in Drop F# (which sounds like fart, he said). The pickups for my Jackson are also EMG 707, the same as those of his schecter, so I am quite uncertain about whether or not should I play with it. I am planning to switch two EMGs to Bare Knuckles Black Hawks (I am really into the clarity of sound that BKP brings out), but I still have to wait for few more months until I save enough money any suggestion to alternative pickups? And one more question, how thick should the low F string should be? I personally like those that are thicker and with much more tension, and I am quite interested in how Joe from Within The Ruins use two bass strings for the second last strings on his Legator, but I am also worried about how it will sound in the studio lol... Thanks a lot!

 

[FollowTheSigns]

I don't tune to drop F myself, but a friend of mine got his Shecter Omen 7 setup in drop F with a 10-64 set. It's way too floppy so it sounds bad, but I think with thicker strings it should be fine. Not ideal maybe, but it would work with a proper setup.

 

[Hywel]

This is all a bit theoretical (I only go to drop Ab on a 27") and you can tune the tensions and gauges to your preferences here (String Guage and Tension Calculator - Version 0.1.4 - 26 apr 1998) but whats below might work. It's a D'Addario EXL148 set with a .080 single added on.

len 26.5" == 26.5"

C4# .012" PL == 16.51#
G3# .016" PL == 16.48#
E3 .020" PL == 16.22#
B2 .034" NW == 22.18#
F2# .046" NW == 22.03#
B1 .060" NW == 17.09#
F1 .080" NW == 14.77#
total == 125.26#

As for pickups, I have the 6 string Blackhawks and I love them but they are expensive. I have an SD Sentient and Nazgul set on my 7 in the active covers (nicely fitting in the old EMG routes) and I think they do very well and they were quite a bit cheaper than the BKP so they may be worth a look. EMG 57-7/66-7 might be worth a look as well but I've never personally tried them.

Hope that helps a bit!

 

[MJS]

Not sure how much it throws things off, but all of the "PB" in the tension calculator should probably be changed to "NW" for nickel wound. 3rd string to "PL" if it would be plain.

I'm not really sure if a 26.5''-scale 7 string can handle such low tuning

There are plenty of 26.5" and even 25.5" 8-strings out there... and I'm pretty sure some have been tuned down a whopping 1/2 step.

String tension is just personal preference. You already have the guitar so play around with the tension calculator and give it a shot.

Maybe get a few different singles for the F. At some point when getting thicker, you might be willing to sacrifice a little tension for the feel of a slightly thinner string.

 

[Hywel]

Not sure how much it throws things off, but all of the "PB" in the tension calculator should probably be changed to "NW" for nickel wound. 3rd string to "PL" if it would be plain.

Whoops! Fixed and cheers for pointing that out

 

[hawazd77]

Thanks a lot, guys! :3 these information does help A LOT!

 

[raidereric]

My cheapo SGR C-7 is 26.5 Scale and is tuned Thall tuning (drop F) with .11 Ernie Ball Power Slinkies, sounds bomb as ....

 

[7stg]

I'm not really sure if a 26.5''-scale 7 string can handle such low tuning since my friend who has a Schecter Hellraiser C-7 always complaints about how terrible his schecter sound in Drop F# (which sounds like fart, he said).

This is the problem with short scale guitars and low tunings. It can be done with a thick enough string, the right pickup, and the right gear, but you will always be fighting the math/physics of it, higher inharmonicity will be getting in the way of a clear tight tone.

(I am really into the clarity of sound that BKP brings out),

As you say you are into the clarity of sound, an Agile 830 may be a better option than new pickups. It will really fix the problem rather than putting a band aid on it.

 

[KristapsCoCoo]

If you're willing to experiment try out some alternative tunings with F.
I'm often using this tuning when you drop tune only the 7th string. If you want to use F just drop tune your guitar to G# and downtune just your 7th string to F. This way your two lowest strings will form octave chord if you play the same form as you would play standard power chord in standard tuning.
You could put some thicker string on that one, but you can leave other strings as they are!
It's super fun tuning, it makes you think a little bit differently and I've come up with very interesting things in that one! It's like another gun in your weaponery instead of just tuning lower the same tuning you already know!

 

[hawazd77]

This is the problem with short scale guitars and low tunings. It can be done with a thick enough string, the right pickup, and the right gear, but you will always be fighting the math/physics of it, higher inharmonicity will be getting in the way of a clear tight tone.



As you say you are into the clarity of sound, an Agile 830 may be a better option than new pickups. It will really fix the problem rather than putting a band aid on it.

Before I got my Jackson, I had actually considered buying an agile, but too bad I live in Taiwan where there are mainly (and merely) Gibson, Epiphone, Fender or Ibanez... (and sevenstring is like extremely rare) I didn't have enough money to afford the price along with shipping How about a carvin dc700 or dc800? (though they are like "really" expensive lol at least there is one or two in stock in Taiwan)

 

[hawazd77]

If you're willing to experiment try out some alternative tunings with F.
I'm often using this tuning when you drop tune only the 7th string. If you want to use F just drop tune your guitar to G# and downtune just your 7th string to F. This way your two lowest strings will form octave chord if you play the same form as you would play standard power chord in standard tuning.
You could put some thicker string on that one, but you can leave other strings as they are!
It's super fun tuning, it makes you think a little bit differently and I've come up with very interesting things in that one! It's like another gun in your weaponery instead of just tuning lower the same tuning you already know!

So do you think it is okay for me to replace the 7th string with a lower bass string... I'd really want to try that (moreover it sounds kinda cool LOL), but I'm still afraid that EMGs can't handle such low tuning and screw up the entire sound... (esp in studio) Did you encounter similar issues before?

 

[rockskate4x]

I'd recommend trying the 24 Volt mod for your EMG's. There are other threads on that so I won't explain it here but it can be done easily and reversibly, given you have enough space for a second 9 volt battery in the control cavity. Strings are a personal preference, but i would use a minimum gauge of 11-49 + 70

 

[Ancient]

I use a modified version of Drop F (FCFA#DGC) on my seven strings which are 25.5" scale using .12-.79 Kallium strings. The scale length isn't everything though, alot has to do with the bridge style and number of frets. So my two main axes are DeArmond S-67's (i know... they're aren't well loved around here but for what I do they're perfect), they are 25.5" scale with 22 frets and a TOM style bridge that is angled slightly back on the bass side. I have these setup with perfect intonation and the tension with the .79 low string is awesome, no flub and no mud (I think the BKP painkillers have alot to do with that though). BUT I also picked up a Schecter revenger 7 string for dirt dirt cheap to try as a back up and its 25.5" scale as well but has 24 frets and a fixed bridge with string through body. It did not work at all, The saddles of the bridge do not have enough travel at all to intonate correctly even with the low string saddle all the way against the back plate.

So the Jackson you got is 26.5" scale and has an angled TOM bridge (like my dearmonds) but is 24 frets. I think you should have very few issues getting it setup for this tuning. As pointed out earlier by slj762 .12-.80 d'addario's or the Kallium's I use (.12-.79) should be perfect for what your doing. The slightly longer scale of yours vs mine will probably net you a bit more tension than I have, which judging from your OP is what your looking for.

As far as it sounding like fart well that's probably got more to do with the amp setup than the pickups or the guitar setup. I use a 200w 4xkt88 head that is all clean head room (I use pedals for my dirt / distortion), you need an amp that can handle the low frequencies the guitar is going to naturally produce plus have enough watts to push that low end into perceivable volume while staying taut. An amp running atleast EL34's with a modern voice should be okay, but if you can get something 6550 or KT88 powered I would suggest that. Also I like to have some 15's in my cab setup as it really helps fill out the low end of this tuning, I firmly believe there's a golden ration of 2:1 12's:15's that just sounds amazing.

You mention getting BKP's or something similar for pickups. I would suggest getting something like the painkiller if you can handle the output due to its increased mid range and lowered bass range. Since the tuning itself will naturally push alot of low end it will help balance out your tone. I also have duncan distortions in one of my dearmonds which has quite a bit more low end than the PK's, and while its amazing for the wall of thick fuzz crushing you into powder type tones the clarity and audibility is decreased in comparison to the crunch and cut of the PK's.

 

[KristapsCoCoo]

So do you think it is okay for me to replace the 7th string with a lower bass string... I'd really want to try that (moreover it sounds kinda cool LOL), but I'm still afraid that EMGs can't handle such low tuning and screw up the entire sound... (esp in studio) Did you encounter similar issues before?

I'm using 74 guage on 26.5 neck and it works fine for me. Yeah, it's a little bit muddy, but not so much that I wouldn't enjoy it anyway haha.

Listen to this, to see if you think it's sounding ok:
[SC]https://soundcloud.com/kristapsmelderis/demo2[/SC]

Recorded it with droped 7th string on my Blackjack C7.

 

[7stg]

Before I got my Jackson, I had actually considered buying an agile, but too bad I live in Taiwan where there are mainly (and merely) Gibson, Epiphone, Fender or Ibanez... (and sevenstring is like extremely rare) I didn't have enough money to afford the price along with shipping How about a carvin dc700 or dc800? (though they are like "really" expensive lol at least there is one or two in stock in Taiwan)

Living in a country with limited selection does make it tough, and shipping and import taxes/extortion can make what may be a good deal exorbitantly expensive.

Carvin is amazing quality and quite a good deal in the states. Their dc7x is the best seven string around. Outside the states the pricing goes up quite a bit making The Jackson b7 and esp baritone models worth a look, they are also good quality and have a 27 inch scale.

For 8 strings the ibanez m80m is the best thing out there. The 29.4 inch scale is great for the low f#1 and not too long for the high e4. I am not a fan of a 27 inch scale for 8 strings, it does not give the clarity I like and that is a major criteria for me.

There is agile which are nice if you live in the states as the return policy is good, but outside the states there is no return policy. Mine is good quality especially for the money, but there have been a few issues some have had. Their 28 or 30 models would be good.

Speaker wise I like a more FRFR design. Either 7 inch studio monitors with a sub like Adam f7 and their subf or yamaha hs7 and hs8s , 3 way bass cab, or maybe a pa that has nice not harsh treble.