Emperion mail?

[Emperion_Mik]

Hi there,

i am Michele, one of the guys at Emperion,

i have been pointed here from a person that i know, i haven't gone through the whole fifteen pages because forums are something that i never really liked.

Anyway, i would like to clarify some points since it seems to that there are too much speculations and not real facts.

So to be much more synthetic and clear as possible:

1) Emperion guitars are made in China

FALSE.

We used to do prototyping with Aram Music (which is, by they way, a South Korean company) as prototyping can be the most expensive part in producing an instrument.

Only two models (ZX and ZV) were made at Aram and were sold at a very low grade instrument price.

I can't say much more on this since there is a legal action involved with ARAM by using our projects for their own website and other (worst) things they made.

2) Final models are different than the specs provided

Partially TRUE. I am dealing with the person responsible for this and of course errors will be corrected in the future. The differences, however, are only on the aestethic side and the whole "fret access" story is just too much exaggerated.

It is TRUE that is different than the mockup but it is absolutely NOT "unplayable" as someone said, those are judgements based on speculations on pics made "on the fly" just to show up the guitars to most unpatient customers (e.g. the Norax Red Flame has both flame mape on top and headstock but the pic was take on very strong direct sunlight with a not top of the market camera, hence this can be misleading).

For your reference we used AAA grade alder on the Norax and AA grade flame maple top on the Red flame and Green flame Norax(s)

A customer even made tests with chemical reagents on the woods and contacted us that he was very satisfied on the wood quality, quoting him he said "that's the same alder that there is on the Jackson PRO series".


People who had already the chance to try those instruments has given us entusiast opinions and feedback.


We will provide better pics and videos in the next weeks of course that may help to calm this kind of paranoia.


This being said we're fully aware and we won't decline our responsibilities, this means that if we will process every refund request we may receive if anybody will be unhappy with the instrument. Luckily on a more than couple hundred pre-orders received and being processed and shipped these days we got no more than 6-8 refund requests.


I am sorry but i won't have much spare time to keep on reading the thread so if anyone wants to ask anything or have more clarification can contact us via email.

Best regards
Michele

 

[jymellis]

Hi there,

i am Michele, one of the guys at Emperion,

i have been pointed here from a person that i know, i haven't gone through the whole fifteen pages because forums are something that i never really liked.

Anyway, i would like to clarify some points since it seems to that there are too much speculations and not real facts.

So to be much more synthetic and clear as possible:

1) Emperion guitars are made in China

FALSE.

We used to do prototyping with Aram Music (which is, by they way, a South Korean company) as prototyping can be the most expensive part in producing an instrument.

Only two models (ZX and ZV) were made at Aram and were sold at a very low grade instrument price.

I can't say much more on this since there is a legal action involved with ARAM by using our projects for their own website and other (worst) things they made.

2) Final models are different than the specs provided

Partially TRUE. I am dealing with the person responsible for this and of course errors will be corrected in the future. The differences, however, are only on the aestethic side and the whole "fret access" story is just too much exaggerated.

It is TRUE that is different than the mockup but it is absolutely NOT "unplayable" as someone said, those are judgements based on speculations on pics made "on the fly" just to show up the guitars to most unpatient customers (e.g. the Norax Red Flame has both flame mape on top and headstock but the pic was take on very strong direct sunlight with a not top of the market camera, hence this can be misleading).

For your reference we used AAA grade alder on the Norax and AA grade flame maple top on the Red flame and Green flame Norax(s)

A customer even made tests with chemical reagents on the woods and contacted us that he was very satisfied on the wood quality, quoting him he said "that's the same alder that there is on the Jackson PRO series".


People who had already the chance to try those instruments has given us entusiast opinions and feedback.


We will provide better pics and videos in the next weeks of course that may help to calm this kind of paranoia.


This being said we're fully aware and we won't decline our responsibilities, this means that if we will process every refund request we may receive if anybody will be unhappy with the instrument. Luckily on a more than couple hundred pre-orders received and being processed and shipped these days we got no more than 6-8 refund requests.


I am sorry but i won't have much spare time to keep on reading the thread so if anyone wants to ask anything or have more clarification can contact us via email.

Best regards
Michele

awesome info, but can you tell me when people are finally gonna start getting the guitars that they where promised months ago?

 

[Emperion_Mik]

awesome info, but can you tell me when people are finally gonna start getting the guitars that they where promised months ago?

We've started shippings this week, we roughtly sent out about 80 guitars at this moment, we should finish shipping out everything in the next two weeks depending on the customization requested by the customer as we're even setting up the guitars with the preferred tuning and string brand/scale requested by some customers

best regards
Michele

 

[Psionicist]

Some guitars are being shipped as we speak. I got my notice earlier this week, and I remember another person posted they had their tracking number.

 

[Andromalia]

We will provide better pics and videos in the next weeks of course that may help to calm this kind of paranoia.

HAving sent a refund request yesterday, I can't really say I'm paranoid. Check my interventions in this subject, I have been patient and understanding of things such as the volcano business etc.

That being said, 4 months delay is not acceptable, guitars were supposed to be made in Japan, which you apparently cannot confirm. And the more you wait, the less you are prone to accept that you get delivered something diffrent than ordered. Yes, it's maybe only cosmetic. Cosmetic options are what make a good part of a guitar appeal, else people wouldn't swoon over spalted maples, flamed tops etc. The binding on the scorpius was part of what made them appealing for the price they were offered for. It's gone

You also have to admit the pictures you published are quite bad, and qualifying customers as "impatient" when you are 4 months late isn't very good customer service. If the goods had been delivered in late february as planned this wouldn't be an issue. Too many ordrers ? You didn't have to accept all of them if you couldn't handle it for this run. Rome wasn't made in one day and a first quality short run would have been better than making 300 rushed guitars that are not conforming to the specs.

Thanks for taking the time to post here anyway.

 

[paintkilz]

is that pickup crooked?

and thats definitely not flamed.

i dont think its so much unjustified paranoia as it is bad advertising and bad follow through.

 

[Esp Griffyn]

Well, I have been holding off for months and watching this trainwreck unfold, but I think I can safely say I was right all along about this venture. It would be great to pretend that some guys out there just want to give you an awesome deal and will give you a really cheap, awesome guitar, but in truth they will cut corners and costs, and get their products from the cheapest supplier.

That is exactly what has happened, and you can see the products look like £150 crap. Practically every Emperion guitar I look at has some kind of flaw, and that is aside from the fact that the they just aren't what the customers were sold on, the early mockups are far from the finished products. A real blunder, I'm glad they are procesing refunds, because I'd be mortified if I dropped money on this.

Also, the black finished guitars look like have just been pulled out of a vat of crude oil.

 

[Rotatous]

I don't think the guitars look quite as bad as some of you do, but I'll just see how everything plays out.

Though, I'm not going to make any judgements at least until I've seen some higher quality pictures. Having taken quite a few pictures of guitars in the past, I know how much a bad, blurry picture with lots of reflections can influence how the quality of a guitars finish (as well as other things, in many cases) looks.

 

[Valserp]

Sad thing is, the older Noraxes DID look exactly like the mockups...

 

[cyril v]

is that pickup crooked?

I'm guessing thats just an angled TOM bridge, making it appear as though the pup is angled.

i dont think its so much unjustified paranoia as it is bad advertising and bad follow through.

I think it's a little weird that so many people were so eager to jump on board with this company for the first builds even though most people know most problems that occur don't get ironed out in the build process until the 2nd 3rd or 4th run.

You would think people should just wait til they get the guitars before freaking out, it's not like they won't give you a refund if you chose to after inspecting it, then again it's not my money.

 

[Rick]

I hope these issues get cleared up soon, I'm really hoping that Emperion does well.

And yes, I will continue to play Agiles only.

 

[exo]

Wow, maybe this isn't the best thread to make a debut in(I've lurked for several monthss, this is a cool place), but oh well....

not overly sure about the cutaway access problem people are complaining about....unless my eyes deceive me, the "original", proto Norax in that video above joins at the 19th fret, just like the "new" ones in the pics do. Neither of those, I might add, join up where the mockup photos show......


I'd be more than happy (dependent on how it plays, of course) receiving a guitar that looks like the one in the vid, ESPECIALLY for the prices paid.

That red soloist style guitar a few posts up.....looks like the pup itself might be a tad off, but a quick check with the "rectangle" tool in mspaint shows that the cavity itself is square with the fretboard end, at least. Again, I'd be more than happy with that guitar, if it's ANYTHING like the 94 pro series soloist in neck feel.

The "flame" V....yeah, I have more than a little difficulty seeing the flame on that....but there's enough glare down the center, I have trouble making out much of anything, detail wise Isn't that thing supposed to be a burst, as well? between the heavier paint at the edge of the burst, the glare in the center, and the fact that it's OBVIOUSLY a hasty shot, I'm not so sure I'd rush to judgement on the top just from that pic....I mean, obviously, it's not gonna be a PRS 10 top, or something from Hartung....


I DO know I'd be pretty pissed if I'd been waiting 4 months or more for a guitar though.....sure seems like that anger is coloring some of the criticisms, though.

 

[Murmel]

Honestly, I don't think a top of the line flame maple top should be THAT bothered by the sunlight. I can't see any flame what so ever on that guitar. And I wouldn't call that a burst, more like black edges...

And why are the lightning flashes on the finish so damn strange.. Shouldn't they be like, straight? <--- Regarding the Norax pic as It doesn't have a curved top the Scorpion.

 

[Esp Griffyn]

I'm guessing thats just an angled TOM bridge, making it appear as though the pup is angled.

Nope, the pickup is definitely crooked.

 

[Ben.Last]

Nope, the pickup is definitely crooked.

It could just be the way the protective plastic is situated on top of it. Although, I understand people assuming the worst with how some of these are looking.

 

[Esp Griffyn]

It could just be the way the protective plastic is situated on top of it. Although, I understand people assuming the worst with how some of these are looking.

It's not just the plastic. If you look at the edge of the pickup, or the magnet line, it's clearly not alignd with the bridge or the end of the fretboard.

 

[Andromalia]

I think it's a little weird that so many people were so eager to jump on board with this company for the first builds even though most people know most problems get don't get ironed out in the build process until the 2nd 3rd or 4th run.

You would think people should just wait til they get the guitars before freaking out, it's not like they won't give you a refund if you chose to after inspecting it, then again it's not my money.

Well, the price vs features was interesting.
Meanwhile:
-the guitars are 4 months late.
-some of the abovementioned features are lacking.
-some models got considerable modifications (V shape)
-the "Bstock" photos are just terrible. First time I ever see such a botched fretboard, seriously.
-company answers to the questions that the pics have risen was slow or inexistant.
-Still haven't seen a decent pic of the model I've ordered except for said Bstock above.
-Michele persistence to say the red guitar is flamed is not reassuring at all. Whatever the lighting and camera quality a front shot like this should show it. Too bad I don't have one at home I'd show you.

Of all the pics I've seen, only the white 6 string scorpius seem to be the specs that were advertised.

Yes, we've only seen pics. Trick is, we're not blind. At best emperion is guilty of lousy CR, would it have been difficult to showcase pics of finished models of good quality earlier a,d to update their website more often ? I'm patient, I have a custom guitar that I will likely get in 18 months at best, no problem. But when the company is late, I want information.

 

[haffner1]

I took that V photo and ran it through every range of color and contrast variation possible and I can get even the slightest hint of any type of flame or wood grain.

 

[cyril v]

It's not just the plastic. If you look at the edge of the pickup, or the magnet line, it's clearly not aligned with the bridge or the end of the fretboard.

Just throwing it out there, but like I mentioned before about the bridge... you know the pickups are not supposed to be aligned with that, right? It's a TOM bridge that is angled to allow for easier intonation?

(not mine, just using this as an example)

EDIT
Also, I took the time to do this while watching tv...

I brought the picture into photoshop, aligned the edge of the fret board with with a perfectly straight line. Then drew four more perfectly straight vertical lines and lined them up on the pickup. Then I used color burn around the pickup to take away almost all of the visible plastic cover/tape/whatever(looks to be invaders? lol) so that you can see the true edges of the pickup. (Blue lines are lined up with the outside of the pickup, orange on the pole pieces and obviously the yellow on the bridge. Again, these are perfectly vertical lines, so it's not like I am making anything up.)

I'd say it's pretty much 95% there, and the to-the-pixel difference can be accounted for by the way the person took the picture and IMO it's pretty hard to take a perfectly level picture by hand so there is almost always a bit of perspective distortion (i dunno if thats a real term or anything, lol), but anyone thats taken a picture before knows that if you have the camera that isn't perfectly level, there can be some warping, which is why I take dozens of pictures for my NGD threads and end up using like 4/10 when I get around to posting.

let me know what ya think.

(I stand corrected, the bridge is not angled.

Well, the price vs features was interesting.
Meanwhile:
-the guitars are 4 months late.
-some of the abovementioned features are lacking.
-some models got considerable modifications (V shape)
-the "Bstock" photos are just terrible. First time I ever see such a botched fretboard, seriously.
-company answers to the questions that the pics have risen was slow or inexistant.
-Still haven't seen a decent pic of the model I've ordered except for said Bstock above.
-Michele persistence to say the red guitar is flamed is not reassuring at all. Whatever the lighting and camera quality a front shot like this should show it. Too bad I don't have one at home I'd show you.

Of all the pics I've seen, only the white 6 string scorpius seem to be the specs that were advertised.

Yes, we've only seen pics. Trick is, we're not blind. At best emperion is guilty of lousy CR, would it have been difficult to showcase pics of finished models of good quality earlier a,d to update their website more often ? I'm patient, I have a custom guitar that I will likely get in 18 months at best, no problem. But when the company is late, I want information.

It all seemed too good to be true IMO, I tried relaying that message in the original thread along with a few others but most people seemed to ignore that, as well as the mishaps that generally occur with early runs.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset, but if you're taking the chance on a new company with nothing really to show but some photoshop mockups and then after waiting all of that time.. I'd at least want to wait for them to show up at my house to see what kind of stuff they are really offering. I mean, keep the expectations low and all based off of the stuff you mentioned obviously

 

[Raphy00]

i really find it quite funny that people complain about the guitars being 4 months late and all the little (in my opinion) flaws that they have found in the PICTURES of the guitars.

I mean seriously, you order a reasonably priced guitar from an unknown company from their first large run of guitars and expect everything to go perfectly? your just setting yourself up for disappointment there.

and yea you can compare them to Rondo and how theyve gone about things but do u honestly think they didnt have problems with their first run of guitars?

i say just be happy that these problems arent more significant in terms of playability of the guitars.

but anyway mine has been estimated to arrive on the 22nd so i will be giving a review then.

/end rant