Emperion mail?

[MJS]

The 7 days should mean you have 7 days to send it back. I'd be more worried if it said "returns must be received within 7 days," which would be unreasonable and set them up for a flood of charge-backs.

Still waiting for my refund 3 weeks after it's been requested on many occassions. Did anyone else get told they were having troubles processing it through Paypal? I really find it hard to believe, even after I've sent a refund request through Paypal.

That would worry me. Having no money or simply not processing a refund are the only two reasons I can think of for one not going right through.

I'd send PayPal a copy of the email from them saying they were processing it and that they're blaming PayPal for the hold-up. They probably won't appreciate a dishonest seller dragging their name through the mud.

This is also why it's a good idea to fund the transaction with a credit card, since you can do a charge-back as a last resort, if nothing else works.

 

[Edika]

"Hi Georgios, i know that there is no white graphite but i know that white graphite nuts does exist, probably graphite mixed with other materials, however i will investigate also this matter and we will issue an official statement soon because a lot of things are going on and needs to be clarified.


Anyway, what i can offer you is to put the BKs in, have a Tusq XL nut installed. If you want a refund anyway just confirm it but i think we won't be able to issue it until the end of the next week when almost all pre-order will be shipped


i am deeply sorry for all the inconveniences caused and we're already working on a radical solution on what happened, i really hate that people is starting to think that we're scammers or worse because we're putting extraordinary efforts, as well as personal ones, to make things go right and in the most transparent and honest way possible


until then


best regards
Michele"

This is the last reply I got from today so I insisted on a refund.

Edit: I stand corrected, there are white graphite nuts and maybe these are white graphite nuts. Of course these are compounds with graphite but the idea of a white graphite seemed very alien to me, so maybe I over reacted on that part.

 

[JaeSwift]

If they aren't scammers then they just have either piss poor QC, or very bad organisation/administration (or all of those).

I hate to say this in a thread where I know a few people ordered an Emperion, but I am damn glad that I didn't order one. Also, if they complain about the 7 day return policy, I believe EU import/export laws can easily overrule them.

 

[capoeiraesp]

Ed, you have not overreacted.
You have paid good money for are guitar regardless of it being a new company.
To have poor routes, chipped paint, imperfections in the fretboard, dirty frets and bad paint work is unacceptable regardless of how much money you've spent.

 

[eks_500]

I asked for a refund the 10th June and they don´t answered me, today I re-send the same mail and they answered me in 2 minutes saying that my guitar is already being set up and under "work" for the customization I requested and they can't refund a personalized guitar like mine. First of all, I made my pre-order at the end of february, so there must be many guitars before mine, and the only thing I requested was the coil-split and a wet sanded neck(20€ extra), I don´t think it is a custom order or any kind of modification to the original model. Moreover, where is the return policy? It´s suposed that I have 30 days to return it if I´m not satisfied, what I want it´s that they don´t send it! I´m waiting an answer, so we'll see what happens.

 

[sublevel]

I asked for a refund the 10th June and they don´t answered me, today I re-send the same mail and they answered me in 2 minutes saying that my guitar is already being set up and under "work" for the customization I requested and they can't refund a personalized guitar like mine. First of all, I made my pre-order at the end of february, so there must be many guitars before mine, and the only thing I requested was the coil-split and a wet sanded neck(20€ extra), I don´t think it is a custom order or any kind of modification to the original model. Moreover, where is the return policy? It´s suposed that I have 30 days to return it if I´m not satisfied, what I want it´s that they don´t send it! I´m waiting an answer, so we'll see what happens.

hey guess what. I also receiving the same answer.. I ask for sanded neck and Blackout pups. He said that I cant get my refund back.

 

[ShadyDavey]

I just received the following through the mail:

Hi there,

It is with a saddened feeling that we've to make an official statement
on some facts that have seen us as victims rather than guilty:


Due to a person which is not anymore part of Emperion Guitars we
simply got different instruments compared to the technical drawings
and specs that we originally sent to our guitar factory and advertised
in our pre-order camapaign.

We rather prefer to act in a deeply honest and sincere way since this
is our policy not only on the commercial side but on the personal one
as well.

As a result the following guitar models have the following specs that
we even had to investigate ourselves, because the afore mentioned
person did what we think could be defined a scam.


Scorpius model, both 6 and 7 strings:

Body: Basswood
Neck: Maple
Fingerboard: Ebony
Construction: Long tenon set neck
Nut (Fixed bridge version): Corian
Nut width (6 string): 43mm
Nut width (7 string): 48mm
Binding on neck

higher fret access shape is different than the one we've developed

Norax model, both 6 and 7 strings:

Nut (where applicable): Corian

same as advertised, higher fret access shape is different than the one
we've developed

Sceptrum:

same as advertised

Nut: Corian


Who writes you is working 10 hours per day (week-ends included)
without wage since more than two months, the whole staff is trying as
hard as possible to carry out and maintain the name of Emperion and to
accomplish the requests of our customers.

We're even spending our own funds to buy the hardcases which we had
already paid in the first place, this includes also Original Floyd
Rose Bridges that were guaranteed us, instead we found Licensed ones
that we're swapping on the guitars in this very moment.

Needles to say that our reference person in Japan admitted his faults
and granted us that such won't happen ever again. This doesn't change
the fact that we simply got a different product from the one we
developed and ordered.

Currently we're setting up daily and shipping all the pre-orders and
we will be processing all refund requests as soon as we can.

The remaining guitars in stock will be sold at an adequate price in
order to let us raise funds to refund those who requested it.
Everybody that got guaranteed a refund will receive it in the best
timely manner possible, as for the others we are not currently in the
position to fulfill their request at this very moment.

A solution is already underway. It consists in a newly hired tech team
which is already working on our guitar projects from scratch and the
best thing we can do is to grant a generous discount on the next
guitar production that will be as advertised before and flawless.

However, this is not affecting the operations of our custom
instruments workshop which is operating normally.

We think that this is the best possible answer we can give to those
who were unfairly doubting of our honesty.

Thanks to all of those who have already received our instruments and
showed us appreciation and enthusiasm.


Best regards
All the Staff at Emperion Guitars

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Shouldn't this official statement have been made BEFORE they started shipping people their guitars?

I feel for them, but to be honest, the "rogue employee" story is one that, in the business world, is just heard way too often. I don't see how in their entire operation a singular individual can be completely responsible for the outcome of these guitars.

I guess this means the nut on Edika's guitar was white corian opposed to a graphite impregnated material, and that the guitar was basswood, hence the lightweight. That makes sense.

Just my .

 

[Edika]

I received the same email. By the replies I had already by them it seems I will receive a refund but when will that be is another matter. I have found a replacement guitar but until I get the money back I can't afford it. I understand though if they are low in funds and I think my photos didn't help much to boost confidence to the hearts of the ss members.

Too bad that one incompetent person can cause so much trouble and make such a bad impression for a company that seemed to have big potential.

 

[Mr Violence]

Shouldn't this official statement have been made BEFORE they started shipping people their guitars?

Exactly what I was thinking. I'd assume a luthier would notice the differences between what was ordered and what was delivered. I'm not a pro by any means, but the flaws and the differences between the mockups and the actual product are glaring.

Nothing should have even left the building without the buyers being aware that what they were getting wasn't what they ordered. Now it's a huge pain in the ass for the consumer to get a refund while they could've avoided the problem by communicating with the buyers.

 

[Edika]

Shouldn't this official statement have been made BEFORE they started shipping people their guitars?

I feel for them, but to be honest, the "rogue employee" story is one that, in the business world, is just heard way too often. I don't see how in their entire operation a singular individual can be completely responsible for the outcome of these guitars.

I guess this means the nut on Edika's guitar was white corian opposed to a graphite impregnated material, and that the guitar was basswood, hence the lightweight. That makes sense.

Just my .

They seem to say that the V's had correct specs on the woods but I wouldn't vouch for that. I have my restrictions for the employ story but I am a bit trusting and would like to believe it is like that. Anyway it is the first time I'll say that the photos I posted didn't due justice to the guitar in a positive manner. The defects where not so obvious in my photos (lack of photographic experience + so and so camera).

My feeling is that there where not a lot of people working in Emperion so if one was in charge of orders and doing business with the Asian factory then he could have painted a very different picture to the rest of the people in Emperion. Also for people entering the business world in a more professional level it is easy to get trustworthy partners in different continents.

So as I said I wish the rest of the people get more decent guitars or people that request a refund to get it. I would like to see this company actually succeed since their designs as promised where quite attractive as well as the features promised. We'll see in the future.

 

[Psionicist]

Yeah, although Ihave some sympathy for them, I am pretty pissed off too.
-The reference person in Japan who guarantees it wont happen again should prove it and commit seppuku.
- I am with Max as I dont know how 1 person toppled Emperion. If the fault was on the Japan side who shipped incorrect instruments, how did that get past QC? That would take more than 1 person.
- I agree with a previous pst the Emperion (if it stays afloat), needs to seriously address Administration and QC issues.
- I dont know that the "generous" discount is going to get any return business. Its kind of baffling actually... its like getting bad food at a restaurant and then them offering you a coupon for a free meal. Maybe, if they had been proactive, they could have allowed people to choose to wait for the correct model (that way they could sell the inventory they have, at least theoretically), take what they have now with the discount in the future, or get a refund.
- Now that the refund is probably unavailable to those who havent already requested it/received the guitars, thats probably going to produce a shitstorm if people are getting guitars that are as flawed as Edikas.

I am just really aggravated by the mis-management of this, and despite the "rogue employee", Emperion still has to shoulder the blame. It seems like their more recent communications were in the right vein, but too late.

Thanks for reading, I am a little less pissed now

 

[sublevel]

Well shit happen and look like I have to live with it..

 

[ZZB]

I asked for a refund on the 2nd of June. I've thereafter been refunded by PayPal for the balance payment but my deposit of 145 EUR must for some reason be sent via bank transfer. I got a message yesterday that they're going to "process it as soon as they can". PayPal wouldn't let me file a dispute on the that payment so it might not really be Emperion's fault.

Well at least I've gotten most of my money back.

 

[JaeSwift]

2 things you guys should keep in mind:

1. Under EU law, paying for a product and not recieving exactly that product is warrant for a return/refund. A company not complying with this means they are in direct violation of EU trade law. I can't speak for people who are situated in the USA and ordered an Emperion, but if you are in the EU then they HAVE to give you a refund/return.

2. There's a big inconsistency in their story; remember that the first delay that was acredited due to a shipment of sub-par quality wood? Remember that NONE of the guitars specified on the website are made of Basswood? The only way they would have ended up with a Basswood guitar, is if they ordered some basswood for custom orders. I dunno about you, but it seems highly unlikely that people would want their customised Emperions to be made of Basswood, thus highly unlikely they did this.

That can mean either two things:

A. They never inspected the wood themselves, and the wood came from a supply in whatever country it is actually made (due to the piss poor worksmanship I doubt it's Japan)

B. They ''planned'' on making basswood Scorpius's instead of Mahogany ones all along.

Quite disturbing. Also, I see their variant of the story as highly unlikely, there's no way a single employee in a factory in Japan would put through ALL the specs for the guitars. Even if it did, this also speaks volumes about their QC, which is supposedly handled by Michele and his co-workers in Italy itself.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Here's the post someone claiming to be Michele made recently in this thread:

Hi there,

i am Michele, one of the guys at Emperion,

i have been pointed here from a person that i know, i haven't gone through the whole fifteen pages because forums are something that i never really liked.

Anyway, i would like to clarify some points since it seems to that there are too much speculations and not real facts.

So to be much more synthetic and clear as possible:

1) Emperion guitars are made in China

FALSE.

We used to do prototyping with Aram Music (which is, by they way, a South Korean company) as prototyping can be the most expensive part in producing an instrument.

Only two models (ZX and ZV) were made at Aram and were sold at a very low grade instrument price.

I can't say much more on this since there is a legal action involved with ARAM by using our projects for their own website and other (worst) things they made.

2) Final models are different than the specs provided

Partially TRUE. I am dealing with the person responsible for this and of course errors will be corrected in the future. The differences, however, are only on the aestethic side and the whole "fret access" story is just too much exaggerated.

It is TRUE that is different than the mockup but it is absolutely NOT "unplayable" as someone said, those are judgements based on speculations on pics made "on the fly" just to show up the guitars to most unpatient customers (e.g. the Norax Red Flame has both flame mape on top and headstock but the pic was take on very strong direct sunlight with a not top of the market camera, hence this can be misleading).

For your reference we used AAA grade alder on the Norax and AA grade flame maple top on the Red flame and Green flame Norax(s)

A customer even made tests with chemical reagents on the woods and contacted us that he was very satisfied on the wood quality, quoting him he said "that's the same alder that there is on the Jackson PRO series".


People who had already the chance to try those instruments has given us entusiast opinions and feedback.


We will provide better pics and videos in the next weeks of course that may help to calm this kind of paranoia.


This being said we're fully aware and we won't decline our responsibilities, this means that if we will process every refund request we may receive if anybody will be unhappy with the instrument. Luckily on a more than couple hundred pre-orders received and being processed and shipped these days we got no more than 6-8 refund requests.


I am sorry but i won't have much spare time to keep on reading the thread so if anyone wants to ask anything or have more clarification can contact us via email.

Best regards
Michele

Then here's the recent e-mail provided by ShadyDave (Thanks man):

Hi there,

It is with a saddened feeling that we've to make an official statement
on some facts that have seen us as victims rather than guilty:


Due to a person which is not anymore part of Emperion Guitars we
simply got different instruments compared to the technical drawings
and specs that we originally sent to our guitar factory and advertised
in our pre-order camapaign.

We rather prefer to act in a deeply honest and sincere way since this
is our policy not only on the commercial side but on the personal one
as well.

As a result the following guitar models have the following specs that
we even had to investigate ourselves, because the afore mentioned
person did what we think could be defined a scam.


Scorpius model, both 6 and 7 strings:

Body: Basswood
Neck: Maple
Fingerboard: Ebony
Construction: Long tenon set neck
Nut (Fixed bridge version): Corian
Nut width (6 string): 43mm
Nut width (7 string): 48mm
Binding on neck

higher fret access shape is different than the one we've developed

Norax model, both 6 and 7 strings:

Nut (where applicable): Corian

same as advertised, higher fret access shape is different than the one
we've developed

Sceptrum:

same as advertised

Nut: Corian


Who writes you is working 10 hours per day (week-ends included)
without wage since more than two months, the whole staff is trying as
hard as possible to carry out and maintain the name of Emperion and to
accomplish the requests of our customers.

We're even spending our own funds to buy the hardcases which we had
already paid in the first place, this includes also Original Floyd
Rose Bridges that were guaranteed us, instead we found Licensed ones
that we're swapping on the guitars in this very moment.

Needles to say that our reference person in Japan admitted his faults
and granted us that such won't happen ever again. This doesn't change
the fact that we simply got a different product from the one we
developed and ordered.

Currently we're setting up daily and shipping all the pre-orders and
we will be processing all refund requests as soon as we can.

The remaining guitars in stock will be sold at an adequate price in
order to let us raise funds to refund those who requested it.
Everybody that got guaranteed a refund will receive it in the best
timely manner possible, as for the others we are not currently in the
position to fulfill their request at this very moment.

A solution is already underway. It consists in a newly hired tech team
which is already working on our guitar projects from scratch and the
best thing we can do is to grant a generous discount on the next
guitar production that will be as advertised before and flawless.

However, this is not affecting the operations of our custom
instruments workshop which is operating normally.

We think that this is the best possible answer we can give to those
who were unfairly doubting of our honesty.

Thanks to all of those who have already received our instruments and
showed us appreciation and enthusiasm.


Best regards
All the Staff at Emperion Guitars

Just putting it out there.

 

[Necris]

2 things you guys should keep in mind:
2. There's a big inconsistency in their story; remember that the first delay that was acredited due to a shipment of sub-par quality wood? Remember that NONE of the guitars specified on the website are made of Basswood? The only way they would have ended up with a Basswood guitar, is if they ordered some basswood for custom orders. I dunno about you, but it seems highly unlikely that people would want their customised Emperions to be made of Basswood, thus highly unlikely they did this.

That can mean either two things:

A. They never inspected the wood themselves, and the wood came from a supply in whatever country it is actually made (due to the piss poor worksmanship I doubt it's Japan)
.

I really doubt wood quality was the reason for the delay to begin with. Judging by the fretboards a few pages back I'd say their ability to discern wood quality is non-existent. And if it was in fact quality that caused the delay the wood must have been absolutely god awful for them not to just use it anyway.

 

[tian]

I'm not too familiar with the various legal systems over in the EU but I do know here in the States a lawyer would have a field day with this case.

The remaining guitars in stock will be sold at an adequate price in
order to let us raise funds to refund those who requested it.
Everybody that got guaranteed a refund will receive it in the best
timely manner possible, as for the others we are not currently in the
position to fulfill their request at this very moment.

As MaxOfMetal pointed out, this is pretty crazy and completely unacceptable business practice. Supposedly hiring an entire team of technicians to work on guitars but are also refusing to refund people because of a lack of funds is either complete BS or an amazing lack of business competence.

To anyone who is getting screwed over by this, please don't just walk away. What they are doing is illegal and was either an outright scam from the beginning or a serious problem that needs to be handled in a much more professional manner even if it requires legal intervention.

 

[MJS]

That really just sounds like a generic "please don't sue us because we know we'll lose" letter... and that's way too much stuff to blame on one person.

The letter mentions wanting to be honest and not having the money to process refunds... where was that honesty when PayPal was getting blamed?

I don't believe anything in that letter and think it was just slapped together for those who might.

I think it's safe to say no one there is working for free. At best, they must be referring to people that get the money whether they pay themselves a salary or not.

No one's paying for cases with their own money, either. Unless they all flip burgers on the side for extra cash, that money they're spending came from the customers that want what they paid for.

Anyway, it seems like they need to do 3 things to improve:

1. Clean house. Companies run like that because of a bunch of incompetent idiots--not one ex-employee.

2. Learn how to be honest.

3. Learn how to build guitars.

 

[cyril v]

So instead of becoming the RondoMusic for Europe, it seems they've become the Halo Guitars for you guys over there... Bailout asap.