ESP 2017 Previews

[JD27]

ESP site is updated. Very disappointing. There are so few new additions to the E-II line that I almost have to wonder if they want it to die. A couple of models got Evertunes...
The Cult 86 is also not under the signature series, but it does have a "soft V" neck profile, FR Special... At $1150, no thanks. But I appreciate the idea.

Straight up mailed in the E-IIs this year. They actually got rid of a few, the SV only lasted one year and the Eclipse 7 is gone.

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

ESP site is updated. Very disappointing. There are so few new additions to the E-II line that I almost have to wonder if they want it to die. A couple of models got Evertunes...
The Cult 86 is also not under the signature series, but it does have a "soft V" neck profile, FR Special... At $1150, no thanks. But I appreciate the idea.

Yeah the EII's hardly had any changes! Maybe this is an area they can update later on throughout the year?

Weird thing, why does the new EII Eclipse Evertune have a battery cavity when there is no active electronics?

 

[BearOnGuitar]

Yeah the EII's hardly had any changes! Maybe this is an area they can update later on throughout the year?

Weird thing, why does the new EII Eclipse Evertune have a battery cavity when there is no active electronics?

It most likely had actives installed first before they decided to offer it with Duncans.

 

[MAJ Meadows SF]

ESP just posted this on Instagram

"Prototype 2017 LTD M-1007 Special Edition Multi-Scale in Walnut Natural Satin"

I do like seeing the fanned Duncans. Not an impressive way to grab anyone's attention with a walnut furniture top, but it is different at least.

 

[Womb raider]

No more original series Eclipses? Looks like they removed it from their site. Very confused what they are doing.

 

[JD27]

No more original series Eclipses? Looks like they removed it from their site. Very confused what they are doing.

Very odd for sure.

 

[Ikke]

No more original series Eclipses? Looks like they removed it from their site. Very confused what they are doing.

They still exist, but I guess this means ESP USA won't be importing them anymore.

 

[JD27]

They still exist, but I guess this means ESP USA won't be importing them anymore.

I can't help but wonder if some of this is aimed at boosting ESP USA sales.

 

[Womb raider]

I can't help but wonder if some of this is aimed at boosting ESP USA sales.

I suppose, but USA eclipses are a whole different animal than the original series. I was looking forward to a new reg thickness Eclipse release as the last 2 color options weren't really doing anything for me.

 

[JD27]

I suppose, but USA eclipses are a whole different animal than the original series. I was looking forward to a new reg thickness Eclipse release as the last 2 color options weren't really doing anything for me.

Right, the USA are FT I believe. You don't like Reindeer Blue? I just looked through the USA gallery and noticed prices seem to be a good deal lower than what they initially listed them at.

 

[Ikke]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this. And many points are already mentioned in this thread.

What is going on with ESP? This is not a flame question. This is an honest question to all of us who are into ESP. Just a discussion. Agree/Disagree. Just looking for thoughts and information.

My Observations/Opinions:
1) Most of the variety and experimentation is happening at the LTD level.

Prices: Up to ~ $1000

Evertunes, multi scales, luminlays, etc. Even signature series are mostly LTD, I haven't seen any E-II Sigs in a while. Has it always been this way, and I just never noticed? I've only owned 1 LTD (Deluxe M1000) so I don't know. I think LTD makes ESP most of their money (correct me if I'm wrong). Personally, after I got my first "real" ESP (my Viper SL7), I wanted nothing to do with the LTD's. Not because they were bad, but I was so spoiled by the Original Series quality. Once I owned my Original Series, I just couldn't go back, at least to the LTDs. I was still okke with Standard Series.

2) The E-II line seems to be becoming more stagnant.

Prices: $1000 ~ $2000

This confuses me the most. Correct if I'm wrong, but the gone (but never forgotten) Standard Series was quite well received? I've never owned one, and came to the ESP party super late, so I don't know. But, tons of color options, models, special editions, signature models, etc. The E-II seems to have gotten rid of most that. This line doesn't seem to be growing. ESP doesn't even seem to care about it. All discussion seems to be about LTD and USA. But, why would that want to get rid of it? I mean, sure, the name is no good, but they can just change that (again). But, I've always thought the Standard Series was the go to for most people.

3) The Original Series (stateside) line is (somewhat) stagnant. But, I agree with JD; I think it's for the sake of the USA Series.

Prices: $3000 ~ $5000

As many have mentioned, the Original Series in Japan is much more expansive. They even came out with some new orders/variations last year (Horizon PT, Knight, etc.). But, we're seeing none of that over here. Granted, some of the shapes might be kind of "out there", but most of them are pretty classic. As Womb Raider mentioned, the Original Series Eclipse is gone. And JD's comment that, it might be to boost sales of the USA Eclipse, might be spot on. Especially since, now the USA and JP offerings are now completely different (again, only comparing stateside offerings as presented on the ESP USA website):

USA: Eclipse, TE, M-II/III
JP: Arrow, FRX, Horizon, Mystique/Amorous, Snapper

ESP JP does offer a Throbber = TE, EC = Eclipse, & Mirages of various flavors.

4) The USA line is now a combination (sort of) of the three Original & LTD.

Price: $2500 ~ $4000

Variety (albeit less) of the LTD + the quality of the Original series. Most of us seem to like the direction of the USA line. Especially since we can special order certain models with different options. And with the special order aspect, the USA line fulfills a certain niche area that was previously somewhat hard/tedious to do: ordering a Standard Series guitar with a slight modification. I think previously you had to go through custom shop, and sometimes, they would oblige for a small upcharge (correct me if I'm wrong). Especially when it was a large run of guitars with the same mod. What we don't like is the lack of Horizons (but those can be special ordered too).

Ultimately, at this point, I'm sort of indifferent, offering isn't bad, but it's not what I personally want either. And it makes me miss the Standard Series even more.

All opinions are welcome. I'd love to hear more thoughts.

 

[Womb raider]

Right, the USA are FT I believe. You don't like Reindeer Blue? I just looked through the USA gallery and noticed prices seem to be a good deal lower than what they initially listed them at.

I previously owned a reindeer blue og eclipse, but I ended up selling it. I currently own a USA and like the top on it much more. I wanted a reg thickness og eclipse loaded with emgs in a different color, but it looks like they nixed that line at least for the US.
The USA prices have always been very good, 15%+ off sticker from most dealers is the norm in my experience. That's why it sucks they aren't still doing production horizons. I don't know how much room they will give you on a semi custom.

 

[JD27]

I previously owned a reindeer blue og eclipse, but I ended up selling it. I currently own a USA and like the top on it much more. I wanted a reg thickness og eclipse loaded with emgs in a different color, but it looks like they nixed that line at least for the US.
The USA prices have always been very good, 15%+ off sticker from most dealers is the norm in my experience. That's why it sucks they aren't still doing production horizons. I don't know how much room they will give you on a semi custom.

Now the prices on the ESP site actually reflect that discount it seems.

 

[Womb raider]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this. And many points are already mentioned in this thread.

What is going on with ESP? This is not a flame question. This is an honest question to all of us who are into ESP. Just a discussion. Agree/Disagree. Just looking for thoughts and information.

Honestly, ESP make some very confusing business decisions. It feels like their guitars are scattered across multiple lines and they are throwing sh.t at a wall to see what sticks. The E-II branding has to be the worst thing that has come out of all this. There was nothing wrong with the Standard Series and they went and messed with a good thing. Anybody worth their salt could tell the difference between a SS, a CS, and an Original, I don't see what they were trying to do with the "exclusive branding".

When I think of ESP, I think of Eclipses, Horizons and Vipers. That's what I want to see. It feels like they are getting further and further away from that, and it's disappointing. Short of blowing your wad on a full custom, your options are getting limited as far as high end production models.

 

[Womb raider]

Now the prices on the ESP site actually reflect that discount it seems.

Yea, I see they have reduced the prices some. They are probably still trying to figure out what the market can handle. I'll do some digging around to see what I can get one of these TEs for. I might just go all USA line if the price is right.

 

[JD27]

Yea, I see they have reduced the prices some. They are probably still trying to figure out what the market can handle. I'll do some digging around to see what I can get one of these TEs for. I might just go all USA line if the price is right.

The standard (non limited editions) already seemed price well, so if they get cheaper, even better.

 

[JD27]

Short of blowing your wad on a full custom, your options are getting limited as far as high end production models.

Which is exactly why I just submitted a quote for a custom XJ. It's actually less about getting a custom dream guitar and more about getting a shape I want with quality and feel that I love about ESPs. Vipers, XJs, Phoenix, Potbelly, Formula, TEs are shapes I would happily buy in the standard production E-II line if they were available.

 

[feraledge]

All opinions are welcome. I'd love to hear more thoughts.

I think they're headed more towards catering high and low end stuff. I think that's what they might have had in mind when they did the whole E-II/ESP split, but they are taking half measures because ESP USA wasn't ready yet.
I imagine that ESP USA is going the 90s ESP route, customizable options on "production" guitars. I think that's awesome, I think they're headed towards more customization and I back it. When the funds are there I would certainly buy one. FWIW, my 90s ESP USA Custom is absolutely phenomenal. Yes, it was built by the current Schecter custom master luthier, but what I'm seeing and hearing about the USA line is along those lines.
I really like the direction ESP USA is in, having the luthiers take a very savvy social media take, doing a lot of pictures and having solid interactions directly with customers.
Owning a Japanese custom ESP, they are totally worth the investment. I get why they made the ESP branding decision, which isn't a slight on the production models or E-II, just saying that maybe they see the market headed in a boutique and mass production line and they want to make the most of both. Admittedly, they do both really well. LTDs are awesome both in terms of value and quality (when they nail it). Major ESP signees tour stadiums with their LTD sigs and having toured and recorded with LTDs, they can certainly get the job done.

All that said, while I get that going in a high/low-mid end focus is good for the company in terms of killing the boutique end and nailing the large moderate-to-low price tiers simultaneously (quality and quantity), it's just a shame that they seemingly feel the need to dismiss that middle tier by skirting the E-IIs.
I can't help but think if they had just merged the Standard Series into the Edwards line that they could have avoided a lot of this. And I also hope that's not what is happening. I can tell you right now, that I would end up buying more E-IIs down the line even though I have ESP Customs (US and/or Japan) in mind. They're awesome guitars.
Perhaps the WMI mix ups over the last couple of years just caused them so much headache and time that they lost the focus for E-II.
Or maybe it is that ESP USA just isn't pushing those lines as aggressively and the company might be headed towards a split of sorts??

Obviously a lot of speculation, but odd moves for sure. I see all the promise in the ESP USA line, but hope they don't make a bunch of bad decisions while they're getting towards building that up and sacrificing the E-IIs in the meantime.

In addition to that, if we take ESP at their word, the massive fluctuations in price with the ESP SS, LTD Elites, and E-IIs has to do with the yen to dollar instability and flux. It's entirely possible that is costing them a lot of business. There were models that went through two or three of those stages within even four years and they were all relatively the same, but the prices would drop $300 or more from ESP SS to LTD Elite and then E-II slowly crept back up to the high point of the ESP SS guitars right before the split. Maybe the upper mid-tier is too susceptible to currency shifts and that hits the market harder???

 

[feraledge]

Which is exactly why I just submitted a quote for a custom XJ. It's actually less about getting a custom dream guitar and more about getting a shape I want with quality and feel that I love about ESPs. Vipers, XJs, Phoenix, Potbelly, Formula, TEs are shapes I would happily buy in the standard production E-II line if they were available.

I think that build is going to be really, really awesome. It would compliment my future Custom Formula build really well.

 

[The Spanish Inquisition]

Yeah the EII's hardly had any changes! Maybe this is an area they can update later on throughout the year?

Weird thing, why does the new EII Eclipse Evertune have a battery cavity when there is no active electronics?

Could be the Blackout preamp system. Or a prototype of the new Duality pickups, which is basically the same thing as the Blackout preamp.