ESP/LTD Comparison Day (Japan through Indonesia)

[feraledge]

I noticed the E-II M-II is listed as having the standard 42mm nut and "Thin U" neck like a lot of other ESP/LTDs.

That is kind of weird, because most M series are listed as having a 43mm nut and an "Extra Thin U" neck profile.

In the simpler days of only ESP Standard Series, all neck thru M's had "Extra Thin U" and all boltys have "Extra Thin Flat". Despite the differences in thickness, my biggest request on the LTD Elite and E-II M-IIs would have been to keep the satin finish on the back of the neck. But my LTD Elite M-II ACSB is one of my favorites.

 

[feraledge]

In about 8-10 months (I'm naively holding to this estimate), this thread is about to get really real. Behold, the ultimate yardstick (in crappy mock up form):

If you're interested in seeing the build progress, any thing I get will go here:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/luthiery-modifications-customizations/293175-inhale-esp-custom-shop-build-exhale.html#post4348797

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

feral, seriously. Just go fist yourself with a handful of quarters.

/jelly

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

So, you're getting the BS-7 in 6-string form.

You bitch. I'm so jealous.

 

[feraledge]

feral, seriously. Just go fist yourself with a handful of quarters.

/jelly

Will you pay to see this? Cause I need to get some money up.

 

[feraledge]

So, you're getting the BS-7 in 6-string form.

You bitch. I'm so jealous.

Pretty much dead on, but extra thin U to boot. And that black fog finish, it's seriously haunted me for like the last 5 or 6 years since I first saw it on a Horizon.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

Will you pay to see this? Cause I need to get some money up.

ehh... I might.

 

[JeffTD]

Mind posting more pics of the M-1 NTB? I used to have one that I routed myself for a neck humbucker and wound up getting it stolen in a shill trade . Not suggesting yours is the one - just brings back memories! Loved that guitar.

 

[feraledge]

Mind posting more pics of the M-1 NTB? I used to have one that I routed myself for a neck humbucker and wound up getting it stolen in a shill trade . Not suggesting yours is the one - just brings back memories! Loved that guitar.

I really don't have many good pics of it. Sorry to hear about that man, I think that's every GAS nerd's worst nightmare. The pics I have are all just sadness because it's super clear that the neck PUP is off center. I prefer to look at it before the faulty mod work of a professional luthier.
Not many pics of the guitar itself then, but here's a decent one from a show even though I look like I'm contemplating eating the mic:

 

[feraledge]

Cleaned up my Eclipse today for selling, thought I'd add another pic as it is looking very sexy right now:

And as a side note, 0000 steel wool does absolutely amazing things for frets and hardware. Oooh shiny...

 

[JeffTD]

Thanks man, that blows that the guy did it off-centered; I wonder if it's close enough to get away with re-working it the other direction and hiding the ....up with a wider pickup ring?

 

[feraledge]

E-II Horizon FR7
2014, Japan

Here's what I had to say on the last page after getting an E-II ST2 and not falling in love with it:

AGAIN, I believe I just got the exception, not the rule. I would gladly give the E-II line a shot. And if ESP wants to send me one, I'd gladly write up about it here and give another lengthy NGD post!

ESP sadly didn't send me a new E-II to try out, but on the basis of being still so stoked on my BS-7, I decided to get a Horizon FR7. So I had the option of getting a NOS ESP Standard Series one OR this E-II. As a sign of good faith and honoring the aforementioned spirit of experimenting, I went with the E-II. Solid move.
This time, I got everything I would have possibly expected out of the Standard Series line. Binding is perfect, finish is flawless, frets are excellent. Even still in tune out of the box! The feel is immaculate. My first experience with a 7 was an MH417 and I remember thinking the neck was clunky, but on both the BS-7 and FR7 it's just this perfect carve and it feels ridiculously right in my hands. I approve greatly.
My one beef, as I mention in my NGD post, EMG makes all of their 7s with a passive route, the soapbar should be obsolete, but it isn't. It's not the worst thing in the world, but considering how high the chances are that I'd go passive, it's just a preference to not have those huge routes if not necessary. I know SD makes Nazguls, Sentients, Pegasus, and Distortions with the soapbar covers now, but still. It's an extra step.
However, the 707s aren't the worst thing in the world. I haven't been into actives for some time, but I'm ordering the 57-7/66-7 set for this guitar and really thinking it'll be a nice pairing. Will see.
Plea to ESP: more finish options would be rad, passive even better, but thank you for making this alder body instead of mahogany!!


While I'm here, a couple more Horizon pics:
FR2

HIII

 

[pahulkster]

I have an MH400 with a Floyd. It is a super cool guitar, and an awesome deal for under $300. It sings unplugged, and has a different tonality than my other guitars. Total keeper and a great example of the LTD brand.

 

[geekusa]

Awesome comparison idea! ESP/LTD quality has been top notch in my experience relative to the price of the guitar. I have an Indonesian MH-327 that I love. Build quality outside of the Floyd special is just killer. Have also owned an EC-1000 that was high quality, but I just never really jived with it.

 

[Carcaridon]

Glad to hear the E-II came in flawless this time. Restores my hope in the brand. Still the backup plan.

 

[feraledge]

Bumping to add a few more to the mix:
ESP LTD GH200
Made in China, 2015.

This one is a little tricky because I bought it for what it could become rather than what it was. Stock? It's not the worst. The ESP designed PUPs were okay, basically EMG HZs and I don't care for the EMG version, so this wasn't doing a lot for me. If you like the sound of HZs, then they could probably work. Floyd Special was on par, I still have to swap out the locking nut parts, they seem weak and I think that's why the tuning isn't as stable as it could be even with the bridge upgraded to a Gotoh (way, way, way better though). I went with a JB/59 set and it sounds ridiculously better.
The pros:
For the money, you're getting solid woods. The basswood body sounds well above par for the price point. The maple neck is solid. The best part of this for me is the contoured neck joint. Never has 22 frets felt like it just wasn't enough for the access.
The cons:
Meh hardware and electronics, shoddy finishing (as expected on Chinese guitars really), and horrible fret work. This was unplayable without a level, crown and polish. How bad? This bad:

That said, I got it crazy cheap and expected to replace the hardware, PUPs, and to deal with the frets myself. In the end, it's a solid player that feels really nice, balances well, and is fun to play.

ESP Horizon
Made in Japan, 1996.

Looking back at this thread, you can see that I'm constantly talking about my old 92 M-II Custom and how it just sounded and felt like a beast. I never shook that. After finding out that my Custom Horizon wouldn't be done until after winter, I knew I couldn't spend all winter without a Horizon and stumbled across this neglected beauty from 96. Took a lot of work bringing it back up to speed, but this is my favorite guitar. Ever.
2 piece ash body, taped off faux-binding, maple neck, bolt on, OFR. My only gripes are that the ESP PUPs are good, but not great (remedying that with a Nazgul for the bridge) and that they glossed the maple neck for some foolish reason. I went ahead and corrected their nearly 2 decade old error and sanded it to become the best feeling neck ever. But the natural harmonics on this guitar are spectacular and the acoustics are incredibly responsive. The feel is top notch. I would go on about it, but I'd rather go back to playing it instead of just talking about it. So I'm going to do that now.

Speaking of heresy, I took my M-II from this:

To this:

 

[Fierce_Swe]

That modded M-II is a true beauty! Incredible job u did there!!! *thumbs up*

 

[feraledge]

Couple more to add, one is kind of a big deal.
Quick comment too, tried out a newer EC400 that's made in Korea (WMI) with the neck neck heel and HUGE improvement here. Way to go LTD! Great feel, awesome access.

ESP E-II Horizon FRII
Made in Japan, 2015.

I was lucky enough to score one of these European models with specs that are rare in the US: maple neck through body, ash wings, ebony fretboard, and, of course, Snow White finish.
I have absolutely nothing bad to say about it. Every bit of it is top notch and absolutely on par with any ESP Standard Series that I've owned or played. Any hesitation on these and you're just being stubborn. E-II is here to stay, stop complaining and don't miss out on these guitars.

And then there's this:
ESP Custom Shop Horizon FR
Made in Japan, 2015/2016.

NGD thread here: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/standard-guitars/310473-epic-ngd-esp-custom-shop-horizon.html
I'll get the obvious out of the way, this is kind of a crazy yard stick. The post before this has a GH200 in it, so a bit of a jump here, but I like being thorough in case it wasn't obvious.
Needless to say, a Horizon built to my specs by the master builders at ESP created the guitar of my dreams. It's perfect in every way and the only way another one like it becomes available is if someone orders the same specs (couldn't blame you if you do).
Since this is a comparison thread, I wanted to be able to go bottom (or fairly close) to the absolute top. So how do customs stack up to E-II/ESP Standards?
There is a difference between them. No doubt about it. The E-II/ESP Standards are phenomenal guitars, virtually all of them in my experience. They sound great, they look great, they play great and they will record perfectly and hold up to the rigors of touring without question. If you're being at all utilitarian, that's absolutely all you "need". (If we're being honest, I recorded more albums and toured without any issue using LTD MH400s for years!)
But, if you want to go above and beyond, then there's the custom shop. Unless you have guards, these aren't for the road, but they are absolutely 100% built for playing. The build process is difficult in the digital age. Ordering is easy, but you will get absolutely zero updates on your build. It will magically appear when it is done. BUT, it will melt your face when it shows up.
Compared to my build with Sully, I could write him a dumb question and get a response and probably even a pic of my work-in-progress within hours, the bar for luthier communication is just a lot higher now than when ESP started building guitars decades ago. You just have to think long and hard, then trust in the process. It's not wrong or right, it just is what it is. Absolutely awesome to get that communication, but the 13 months build time is going to soon be such a small percentage of this guitar's life span that it wasn't a thing the second the guitar was in my hands.
And that guitar is the best guitar I've ever seen, touched, or played in my life. And it should be, it's my dream guitar.
So, would anyone else pick up my guitar and feel the same? That depends on the person. The feel and sound of it are absolutely higher quality than the already high bar set by the E-II/ESP Standards. But how do you quantify magic? To me, this guitar is absolutely worth it and I'm so ridiculously glad that I went through with this.
Would I do it again? Possibly in time. As per dealer request, I'm not stating publicly how much this cost, but I will say it's not out of line with the ESP Original Series and it's also definitely an expense you have to think about. Or at least I do and probably nearly anyone reading this.
But I have seen enough to trust the process and know what I'm getting into. If I got struck by the urge and the funds were there, yes, I'd do it again.
More than likely though, I'll end up getting some more E-IIs and ESP Standards down the line. Just the way things work. They're awesome guitars and even owning the top notch one doesn't demean them in any way.
In real life, I've always been the monogamy die hard, but when it comes to guitars, I've got love to spare. That I sold nearly all my guitars to get down to this one and a couple more is testament to the quality of it, but that's also the reason why I would never, ever play a show with it.
Pure awesomeness.
So, in sum: Budget LTDs are good for what they are. 300-400+ series LTDs are great. Older LTDs are probably a bit greater. ESP Standards and E-IIs are amazing. LTD Elites are amazing sleeper guitars that are a force to be reckoned with (still regret selling my LTD Elite Horizon III FR!). And if the opportunities present themselves, ESP Customs are inexplicably perfection.
/thread

...for now.
Always happy to answer questions and nerd out.

 

[feraledge]

Another one to add to the comparison, don't get to come by these often...

ESP USA Custom Horizon
Made in California, 1997

Built by John Gaudesi, who is now a master luthier at Schecter USA in the relatively short lived USA ESP Custom shop. This guitar is amazing. It's 1:1 with the 96 MIJ Horizon FR that I owned and stupidly sold. I have no problem putting it alongside my MIJ Custom Shop Horizon, made to my own specs.
If you get the chance to grab or play one, do it. In fact, I just pulled the trigger on another MIJ 97 Horizon NT (swamp ash body, bolt on maple neck). The tone from these is awesome. To get woods on par with what they were using standard then, you definitely have to go custom shop. The depth on the quilted top is immense, so the finish just pops even more. I've done some refreshing to all the 90s Horizons that have come through, but they're so awesome it's hard to say much is necessary unless it's undoing neglect or lack of upkeep. The only thing I recommend is to sand the back of the neck enough to get the gloss off (I use a 600 grit block and then go over it with 1200 grit paper, pretty quick, whole process last time took me less than five minutes). Fastest neck feel ever.

 

[RLG167]

Another one to add to the comparison, don't get to come by these often...

ESP USA Custom Horizon
Made in California, 1997

Built by John Gaudesi, who is now a master luthier at Schecter USA in the relatively short lived USA ESP Custom shop. This guitar is amazing. It's 1:1 with the 96 MIJ Horizon FR that I owned and stupidly sold. I have no problem putting it alongside my MIJ Custom Shop Horizon, made to my own specs.
If you get the chance to grab or play one, do it. In fact, I just pulled the trigger on another MIJ 97 Horizon NT (swamp ash body, bolt on maple neck). The tone from these is awesome. To get woods on par with what they were using standard then, you definitely have to go custom shop. The depth on the quilted top is immense, so the finish just pops even more. I've done some refreshing to all the 90s Horizons that have come through, but they're so awesome it's hard to say much is necessary unless it's undoing neglect or lack of upkeep. The only thing I recommend is to sand the back of the neck enough to get the gloss off (I use a 600 grit block and then go over it with 1200 grit paper, pretty quick, whole process last time took me less than five minutes). Fastest neck feel ever.

Beautiful guitar! Where do you guys find these? I can only find either E-II or rarely a slightly overpriced standard.