Etherial Guitars

[Alberto7]

I don't tend to believe that the recent carbon fibre builds are all that much better. Yes, they have full body wraps but that just makes it easier to cover things up i.e. your attention is drawn to all the cool designs and glow in the dark aspects.

This is by no means an attack on Noyan as a person or player, but look closely at these pics.

IMAGE 1:
If I received a BRAND NEW custom guitar, I would not be happy that mounting or intonation screws and bridge itself had ANY damage or scratches. It's supposed to be a brand spankin' new instrument. Again, the intonation looks questionable to say the least.
The bridge extension piece on the high e (1st string) is the wrong way around.

IMAGE 2:
Why is nut arced so sharply towards the treble end of the fretboard?
Have a close look at the pickups. There's a lot more length from them on the treble side than on the bass side, so what does this mean for alignment of the bobbins underneath?


IMAGE 3:
I get it, this nut probably works but there's no good, skilled reason as to why it should be cut so wide and deep. The strings can potentially rattle and slide around. Also, they hit the headstock and the truss rod cover, causing friction, which will cause tuning problems, especially when using the tremolo.
I know that Kahler don't make locking nuts for multiscale tremolos but a brass nut that does not have smooth slots is going to also add a fair bit of friction. I can only assume that Noyan doesn't use the tremolo for dive-bombs because it won't keep tune.

IMAGE 4:
Glow in the dark paint is simply an additive, added to normal paint. Clear, colours, all the same. It's no harder to mask the line for glow in the dark, as it is for normal paint. So why aren't these lines clean and consistent?

Image 1: I do not see any scratches on it. It looks fine. The high e saddle is just different to the rest. I don't see how it is backwards in any way (perhaps I'm not looking at it right... but I really tried, and it looks like a different piece altogether, but not backwards [also worth noting that I am not very familiar with Kahler bridges and their components... much less the 9-string version of it]).

Image 2: I don't see anything weird with the nut on this picture. Perhaps you're looking too hard to find a mistake on it? As for the pickups, perhaps they're rail pickups (I do not remember what kinds of pickups NaYon had put in). As for the slanting, the pickups don't always have to be perfectly aligned with each other. It's a matter of preference in tone and looks (as long as the pole pieces are aligned. I'm assuming they're rail pickups).

Image 3: I actually kind of agree with you. The nut looks like it could have been done better. But it doesn't look like it would be much of a problem as it is.

Image 4: The glow-in-the-dark stripes are actually inlays, not improperly masked paint stripes. Etherial guitars don't do the most accurate inlay work, that's for sure. It's an art to be mastered. I hope they're truly on a learning curve.


Just saying my thoughts about the things you pointed out

 

[capoeiraesp]

Image 1: Look at the lower right mounting screw, the black finish has been scratched off. The same applies for several of the intonation screws. I can understand that many players wouldn't be bothered by such things, it's going to happen over time anyway. Personally, a brand new instrument means everything is brand new and without tarnishing.
The high e saddle is the wrong way around.
https://www.kahlerusa.com/guitar-tremolo-and-bridge/2233-9string-multi-scale

Image 2: There is clearly a downward arc in the nut. Not a big deal I suppose.
The pickups are not rails.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/418868_412471465456934_2144271339_n.jpg

With further regards to the pickups and their bobbins and spacing, I'll put it this way. Why would companies like Seymour Duncan and BKP offer tremolo and standard spaced pickups if having bobbins align correctly is of no importance?
String Spacing Explained: Humbuckers vs Trembuckers | Seymour Duncan Blog

Image 3: You've overlooked the fact that the strings are touching the truss-rod cover and headstock.

Image 4: We can certainly agree upon.

 

[Hollowway]

Just to chime in support for capoeiraesp, he is not the only one that notices these things. And it is IMPERATIVE that these things be pointed out. Nothing against Etherial, either. But I for one have been burned to the tune of $6000 on a couple of customs that I had no warning that the guitar company did shoddy work (it's not any of the builders currently in the news on here, FWIW). I was heart broken that this happened because of the money and time invested from my side. Shortly after it became common knowledge that this company couldn't do good work, despite their cool designs and good intentions.

So, there are a lot of subjective stuff people can say that would cast an undeserved bad light on a luthier. But pointing out stuff we can all see is not only acceptable, but, IMO, appreciated.

 

[Alberto7]

Image 1: Look at the lower right mounting screw, the black finish has been scratched off. The same applies for several of the intonation screws. I can understand that many players wouldn't be bothered by such things, it's going to happen over time anyway. Personally, a brand new instrument means everything is brand new and without tarnishing.
The high e saddle is the wrong way around.
https://www.kahlerusa.com/guitar-tremolo-and-bridge/2233-9string-multi-scale

Image 2: There is clearly a downward arc in the nut. Not a big deal I suppose.
The pickups are not rails.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/418868_412471465456934_2144271339_n.jpg

With further regards to the pickups and their bobbins and spacing, I'll put it this way. Why would companies like Seymour Duncan and BKP offer tremolo and standard spaced pickups if having bobbins align correctly is of no importance?
String Spacing Explained: Humbuckers vs Trembuckers | Seymour Duncan Blog

Image 3: You've overlooked the fact that the strings are touching the truss-rod cover and headstock.

Image 4: We can certainly agree upon.

Well, I gotta say that you have a better eye than I do, sir .

Image 1: Now I see the scratches you were talking about (that's why I can't have a custom guitar... I'd overlook so many details ). As far as the saddles, they just look completely different to me. Still not sure how it's backwards. It just looks like a different piece altogether. But I won't argue against that. It doesn't look like in the picture you linked to (in fact, a lot of the saddle pieces don't ), and I don't know what it's supposed to be like. I believe you. I see you have more experience with them than I do. All's good!

Image 2: I don't know what to make out of the nut slanting thing. I don't personally see anything weird with it (again, my eyes aren't proving very useful, now are they? ). I also stand corrected with the pickup issue. Now that's weird. I hadn't seen that he had pole'd pickups (those are BKP's, yeah?). I'll also add that I completely agree with the fact that pole pieces and strings should be aligned. I was assuming these were rail pickups (which you've duly pointed out that they aren't), in which case alignment wouldn't matter.

Image 3: It's true, I forgot to mention that. I apologize for that. I do suppose that could pose an issue to tuning stability. Not to mention your truss rod would probably look all scratched after some time.

Image 4: Jeez, at least I got that right...


TL;DR: In retrospect, my post was pretty uninformed. I don't know what prompted me to write it. I apologize for that, and I stand corrected on whatever I had to be corrected

Oh, and Hollowway, I 100% agree with you. I appreciate what capoeiraesp is doing here. I just thought he might have been looking a little too hard. Turns out I was just mostly uninformed. I couldn't add anything else to what you said, to be honest.

 

[TemjinStrife]

When thousands of dollars are on the line and you can get something that is flawless from a production guitar available immediately or almost immediately, it is VERY important to sweat the small things.

 

[Hollowway]

Yeah, and it's not so much that I (or others) are intolerant of imperfections. I just want to know what I'm getting into. Heck, I'm a HUGE Agile fan, and Agiles are known to have a certain battery of shortcomings. So when I buy an Agile I know what to expect, and I weight that expectation against the potential downsides that there are, so I'm not surprised when I get the instrument.

 

[AwDeOh]

How much does he charge for his guitars?

 

[NaYoN]

Hey guys,

The guitar shipped from Australia to the US. Let that sink in for a second. Australia was having record high temperatures (around 50C) whereas it was pretty cold around where I was (10C or less). Some things needed tuning up (intonation, bridge, truss rod, strings touching the truss rod etc), but I was excited and just went and took pictures. The guitar was not set up. Judging stuff like string positions and stuff based on that is unfair. Finally, the nut picture was taken with my iPhone camera, and that's the HDR image which means it averages between several images that have hand tremor, so there is some spatial aberration in that picture. Don't judge slant of the nut too much from that pic.

Also remember that this is a multiscale instrument, some comments seem to have not taken that in mind. The nut is slanted because the frets are fanned.

The size of the pickups covers isn't based on the actual size of the pickup, it's based on the original design Matt and I made together. Speculating on the slant of the pickups based on the position of the cover is pointless.

As for the apparent wear on some parts of the guitar, it's dust. My house was very dusty at the time because my vacuum cleaner was broken, and the fresh guitar was a dust magnet.

The glow is NOT PAINT FFS HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS, IT IS AN INLAY. Also, it is not consistent in that picture because the glow does not always charge consistently.

The nut slots are a bit wide because I was not specific on string gauges so he made them larger to accommodate various gauges. In fact, now I use much thicker strings and the extra space helps.

As for the headstock size, that's totally optional. If you don't like it, ask him to make you a smaller headstock.


Feel free to ask me any questions about the build, but please do not baselessly speculate and ruin Matt's reputation because he is a really cool guy, he works hard and he has a good work ethic. Instead of one sided armchair criticism, please talk with people who have worked with him before jumping to conclusions. I'm not trying to defend Matt unreasonably, I'm just saying that so far there has been a lot of negativity in this thread (some warranted) but the positives need to be heard too.

As MetalBuddah said, I approached several other companies with my plans for my guitar, and not one of them were able to fulfill some of my most basic requirements. Etherial was the only one that could actually realize the guitar that I wanted. Mind you, my guitar was his first carbon fiber build and his first 9 string build, and I went in understanding the risks of that, but the end result is great.

Also, he is very open to feedback and he constantly sends you tons of pictures as he works on your build, and if you see any problems with the process, you can tell him and he fixes it right away. It's an interactive process, not a "talk to him once and get a guitar 6 months later" process.

 

[MetalBuddah]

IMHO, Noyan's guitar is pretty incredible and these "flaws" do not sully the guitar itself in any way, shape, or form. You guys just feel the unquenchable need to nitpick over EVERYTHING EVER.

from a guy who actually has held the instrument in his hands.....

 

[Hollowway]

IMHO, Noyan's guitar is pretty incredible and these "flaws" do not sully the guitar itself in any way, shape, or form. You guys just feel the unquenchable need to nitpick over EVERYTHING EVER.

from a guy who actually has held the instrument in his hands.....

Dude, no one said the flaws sully the instrument. Just that there are things about Etherial that are not perfect. I happen to really like Noyan's instrument and would LOVE to own it. I admire both his and Matt's creativity and willingness to make such and instrument. But don't act like people aren't allowed to point out anything wrong. That's the first step to improvement in anything.

 

[NaYoN]

Dude, no one said the flaws sully the instrument. Just that there are things about Etherial that are not perfect. I happen to really like Noyan's instrument and would LOVE to own it. I admire both his and Matt's creativity and willingness to make such and instrument. But don't act like people aren't allowed to point out anything wrong. That's the first step to improvement in anything.

As I pointed out above, many of the flaws are not necessarily flaws, read my long post right above his post. I think that's why he said "flaws" in quotes.

Etherial do have flaws, but they're getting better. From what I've seen and heard from the other Etherial guys, each instrument gets better and better.

 

[Hollowway]

Noyan, wasn't he going to make this a signature guitar, too? I seem to remember we could buy one just like yours (without feeling guilty for replicating your exact design!)

 

[NaYoN]

Noyan, wasn't he going to make this a signature guitar, too? I seem to remember we could buy one just like yours (without feeling guilty for replicating your exact design!)

It won't be the exact same because mine has my name on the back of the neck (others can't do that, it's a stipulation)

But yes, here are the specs and stuff (you can change whatever you want)

Quoting my post from the previous page so it doesn't get buried:

Hey guys,

The guitar shipped from Australia to the US. Let that sink in for a second. Australia was having record high temperatures (around 50C) whereas it was pretty cold around where I was (10C or less). Some things needed tuning up (intonation, bridge, truss rod, strings touching the truss rod etc), but I was excited and just went and took pictures. The guitar was not set up. Judging stuff like string positions and stuff based on that is unfair. Finally, the nut picture was taken with my iPhone camera, and that's the HDR image which means it averages between several images that have hand tremor, so there is some spatial aberration in that picture. Don't judge slant of the nut too much from that pic.

Also remember that this is a multiscale instrument, some comments seem to have not taken that in mind. The nut is slanted because the frets are fanned.

The size of the pickups covers isn't based on the actual size of the pickup, it's based on the original design Matt and I made together. Speculating on the slant of the pickups based on the position of the cover is pointless.

As for the apparent wear on some parts of the guitar, it's dust. My house was very dusty at the time because my vacuum cleaner was broken, and the fresh guitar was a dust magnet.

The glow is NOT PAINT FFS HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS, IT IS AN INLAY. Also, it is not consistent in that picture because the glow does not always charge consistently.

The nut slots are a bit wide because I was not specific on string gauges so he made them larger to accommodate various gauges. In fact, now I use much thicker strings and the extra space helps.

As for the headstock size, that's totally optional. If you don't like it, ask him to make you a smaller headstock.


Feel free to ask me any questions about the build, but please do not baselessly speculate and ruin Matt's reputation because he is a really cool guy, he works hard and he has a good work ethic. Instead of one sided armchair criticism, please talk with people who have worked with him before jumping to conclusions. I'm not trying to defend Matt unreasonably, I'm just saying that so far there has been a lot of negativity in this thread (some warranted) but the positives need to be heard too.

As MetalBuddah said, I approached several other companies with my plans for my guitar, and not one of them were able to fulfill some of my most basic requirements. Etherial was the only one that could actually realize the guitar that I wanted. Mind you, my guitar was his first carbon fiber build and his first 9 string build, and I went in understanding the risks of that, but the end result is great.

Also, he is very open to feedback and he constantly sends you tons of pictures as he works on your build, and if you see any problems with the process, you can tell him and he fixes it right away. It's an interactive process, not a "talk to him once and get a guitar 6 months later" process.

 

[capoeiraesp]

As I pointed out above, many of the flaws are not necessarily flaws, read my long post right above his post. I think that's why he said "flaws" in quotes.

Etherial do have flaws, but they're getting better. From what I've seen and heard from the other Etherial guys, each instrument gets better and better.

Thanks for joining the conversation, Noyan.
I appreciate you clarifying some aspects of your Tron guitar. It's an impressive concept and it has inspired me to commission a very cool concept guitar too in the next few years.
Could we please see some progress shots of the glow in the dark material being inlayed? I'm very curious about how he approached inlaying into the carbon fibre layer and foam (sorry I can't remember what material) body.
I'm not going to argue against your points on your guitar. I can understand your defense but I will choose to quietly disagree.

I guess i'm still left scratching my head over a few things though.
I just don't get how a builder can be excused for having flaws and saying that his builds are getting better and better with each instrument. By that logic, the recent 6 string that is featured on Facebook (the one I pointed out flaws in) should not have the flaws that are present. At the end of the day that's people's hard earned money that is being used in order for the guy to develop his skills. It's inexcusable in my opinion.

 

[Polythoral]

I played an Etherial for a short bit of time (Sarah Longfield's) and in my opinion it was a pretty nice instrument. It played, felt, and sounded really good overall. The only flaws I noticed with the guitar was that the body inlay work was slightly shoddy (was a little unlevel in spots. Note that the fretboard inlay work was very well done from what I remember).

My opinion: Can you find a place that'll make you a better quality and better playing custom instrument for cheaper? Yeah. Can you find one to do the things Etherial will for the prices they do? Quite possibly not.

I know I have no real interest in them, but if the aesthetic that they do is your thing, I can see how you'd be interested.

 

[capoeiraesp]

A custom guitar, built from the ideas you've always dreamed of, should STUN you. There isn't room for 'pretty nice', or compromises.

Commission a dream, not an excuse.

 

[Konfyouzd]

Image 1: I do not see any scratches on it. It looks fine. The high e saddle is just different to the rest. I don't see how it is backwards in any way (perhaps I'm not looking at it right... but I really tried, and it looks like a different piece altogether, but not backwards [also worth noting that I am not very familiar with Kahler bridges and their components... much less the 9-string version of it]).

Image 2: I don't see anything weird with the nut on this picture. Perhaps you're looking too hard to find a mistake on it? As for the pickups, perhaps they're rail pickups (I do not remember what kinds of pickups NaYon had put in). As for the slanting, the pickups don't always have to be perfectly aligned with each other. It's a matter of preference in tone and looks (as long as the pole pieces are aligned. I'm assuming they're rail pickups).

Image 3: I actually kind of agree with you. The nut looks like it could have been done better. But it doesn't look like it would be much of a problem as it is.

Image 4: The glow-in-the-dark stripes are actually inlays, not improperly masked paint stripes. Etherial guitars don't do the most accurate inlay work, that's for sure. It's an art to be mastered. I hope they're truly on a learning curve.


Just saying my thoughts about the things you pointed out

I think he said they're some kinda neodymium pickups.

 

[celticelk]

A custom guitar, built from the ideas you've always dreamed of, should STUN you. There isn't room for 'pretty nice', or compromises.

Commission a dream, not an excuse.

I've been with you for a lot of this conversation, but at some point this argument becomes too extreme. Should I not perform or record for public consumption if I don't play as well as Tosin Abasi either? There are obviously conversations to be had about what constitutes an acceptably professional level of quality, but speaking personally, I order custom guitars because the guitars with the specs I want can't be found as production instruments. They don't have to be awe-inspiring works of art; they just have to be functional to my specs. I think there's room for luthiers working on that level as well.

 

[NaYoN]

Thanks for joining the conversation, Noyan.
I appreciate you clarifying some aspects of your Tron guitar. It's an impressive concept and it has inspired me to commission a very cool concept guitar too in the next few years.
Could we please see some progress shots of the glow in the dark material being inlayed? I'm very curious about how he approached inlaying into the carbon fibre layer and foam (sorry I can't remember what material) body.
I'm not going to argue against your points on your guitar. I can understand your defense but I will choose to quietly disagree.

I guess i'm still left scratching my head over a few things though.
I just don't get how a builder can be excused for having flaws and saying that his builds are getting better and better with each instrument. By that logic, the recent 6 string that is featured on Facebook (the one I pointed out flaws in) should not have the flaws that are present. At the end of the day that's people's hard earned money that is being used in order for the guy to develop his skills. It's inexcusable in my opinion.

Here's a "in progress" picture of the inlays:

As for "understanding my defense and disagreeing"? Really? So you disagree that the guitar was not set up? You disagree that the guitar is fanned? You disagree that glow in the dark material doesn't always absorb light perfectly and thus doesn't always glow perfectly evenly? You disagree that my house is dusty? OK. Then I have nothing for you. I don't want to come off as hostile here, but you can't drop claims like that and when presented with counter-claims, just go "well you're still wrong but I'm not going to argue with you". Either tell me why I'm wrong or concede to being wrong yourself (or some sort of middle ground).


As for the whole "how dare you settle with getting an imperfect guitar" line of thought, let me reiterate.

Matt CONSTANTLY sends you TONS of pictures EVERY DAY of your build. You can ask for more detailed shots on anything, anywhere on the guitar. If you are a guitar evaluation wizard and are unhappy with certain aspects, he will go back and fix them. This is not that hard to understand. It's not a black box process.

 

[Necromagnon]