Ethics in Promotion?

[thoughtpyotr]

So I recently did a fuax social experiment. I created 2 identical posts; one had a relevant title and the other had a title with a purposely incendiary title. I tallied the amount of responses for each and guess what?

Tepid Title: 0 responses
Incendiary Title: 47 responses

I did this to cut through the noise. There is an objective saturation of content online. And even if there is content that perfectly aligns with your sensibilities, there is a 1% chance that you will be exposed to it on organic reach alone.

So my questions to you are:

Is it permissible to go to any and all lengths to get your content to an intended audience?
Where would you draw "the line"?
What lengths have you gone to in order to get your content out there?

 

[bostjan]

This boils down to the question: "Is bad press really better than no press?"

I think the answer is a big giant "it depends."

Sometimes bad press is better than no press, indeed, but I'd argue that, most of the time, it is not.

 

[Jonathan20022]

It just works, clickbait works.

That's pretty much the foundation of any big youtuber's channel (IE: "HE MADE OUT WITH HIS MOM!!", "GONE SEXUAL", etc). The shit will get clicks, and it'll get the views because anyone who is even the slightest bit curious will click it to see what they mean.

I don't think there's really a negative moral stance you can take by doing this in a band promotion context. There's no real way I can think of being clickbait to promote your own music haha.

Here's another thought, clickbait/incendiary titles produce clicks, not people who will return. The numbers might be impressive, but if only one of your pieces of content has 100k plays/views, and everything else is around the 10k mark. Then it doesn't mean much, organic growth might be slow but it means far more in the long term.

 

[BIG ND SWEATY]

It just works, clickbait works.

Fucking this, people love to bitch and moan about clickbait but they keep clicking on it because it grabs their attention. It was around even before the internet too, the newspaper industry has done it since its inception because its what sells (sold) papers. Think about it, are you more likely to click on a like that says This eleven year old kid is great at guitar or THIS ELEVEN YEAR OLD KID WILL BLOW YOUR MIND WITH HIS INSANE PLAYING ABILITIES!!!, unless you're making a conscious decision to avoid clickbait you'll go for the more exciting option every time.

 

[Shoeless_jose]

Quality of content is key. Empty clicks are just that. Empty.

Example.

Im a baseball addict constantly craving anything baseball related. However I ignorr huge sections of baseball media as i knoe they are just clickbait slide shows.

Now soemtimes youre audience may not care if they feel they are being intellectually underestimated for the sake of clicks. But me personally I do. But it its good content the things you do to promote it become a non factor

 

[thoughtpyotr]

Here's another thought, clickbait/incendiary titles produce clicks, not people who will return. The numbers might be impressive, but if only one of your pieces of content has 100k plays/views, and everything else is around the 10k mark. Then it doesn't mean much, organic growth might be slow but it means far more in the long term.

True but, considering youtube's and FB's filtering algorithms, if you give the clickbait post the time of day then there is a higher likeliness that you'll see this person on your feed again. To me that is the point. Sure I may have baited you the first time but with that it gave me an in for later.

 

[thoughtpyotr]

Now soemtimes youre audience may not care if they feel they are being intellectually underestimated for the sake of clicks. But me personally I do. But it its good content the things you do to promote it become a non factor

This is a good point. Yet I would be curious to see what large scale statistics reflect. Are the majority of audiences composed of people like you or the opposite?

 

[bostjan]

The way sites are set up nowadays, though, if you set up a clickbait video, and get a lot of clicks, your account gets poised to show up higher in searches, and your other media will be more prone to be more visible.

Therefore, it gets clicks and those clicks get more exposure, which gets more people returning.

 

[Jonathan20022]

True but, considering youtube's and FB's filtering algorithms, if you give the clickbait post the time of day then there is a higher likeliness that you'll see this person on your feed again. To me that is the point. Sure I may have baited you the first time but with that it gave me an in for later.

It really depends, and is a bit of a gamble. I just remembered that I was getting band suggestions off of Facebook in my newsfeed the other day and I hardly ever clicked on any of them. In fact I can remember the only one I did click on Inferi, because I already listened to them but never liked their page on FB.

But yeah it may just be me, but even if I clicked on something baity and it shows up again I personally make a mental note not to check it out again. But it varies for your audience.

 

[thoughtpyotr]

It really depends, and is a bit of a gamble. I just remembered that I was getting band suggestions off of Facebook in my newsfeed the other day and I hardly ever clicked on any of them.

What about sponsored posts? I sometimes get tricked into thinking I liked a bad band but it turned out to be a sponsored post based on other like history.

 

[thoughtpyotr]

T
Therefore, it gets clicks and those clicks get more exposure, which gets more people returning.

There has got to be a better way man. :/ we'll see what the future has in store for us.

 

[Jonathan20022]

What about sponsored posts? I sometimes get tricked into thinking I liked a bad band but it turned out to be a sponsored post based on other like history.

That's actually what I meant haha, I used the wrong term. The Inferi post and several other band's posts were sponsored!

 

[thoughtpyotr]

That's actually what I meant haha, I used the wrong term. The Inferi post and several other band's posts were sponsored!

Ohh forsure! I sometimes see band suggestions on my sidebar too (with the advertisements) and ignore them 100% of the time.

Also, did you guys know that there things called "click farms"? Basically, people in other countries make fake profiles directed towards liking your posts. They are used on those websites where you can buy likes.

It sucks because if I open up my sponsored posts to Mexico, I end up getting flooded with fake likes that are useless.

 

[JohnIce]

I'd say my opinion of an artist is definitely negatively effected if I see them using clickbait tactics. I don't have a problem with attention-grabbing headlines if they show creativity, but when you're obviously just trend-hopping onto a viral thing I have a problem with it. For example there's a big difference between "We made this song in an unusual/provocative way" and "Despacito but with fidget spinner but you won't believe what his mom's cat does next..." Besides showing no creativity it also shows that you're targeting the lowest common denominator for absolute mass appeal, and that tells me you either don't know who your tribe is or your music is too generic and bland to have a tribe. Mostly it shows you're probably just in it for fame and money though. All three makes you a shit artist in my eyes

Personally, all the music I listen to is stuff I've discovered either by word of mouth or by looking for new music. If the music is good, that is plenty. Clickbait just tells me the artist believes it has to rely on tasteless marketing to get anyone to care about them (they know this from experience) and that's why none of those artists have ever appealed to me because their music is never that good. Sometimes it's not bad, just not that good.

 

[bostjan]

Release a song right now called "Game of Thrones Fidget Spinner featuring Spiderman Homecoming" and rake in the cash for the next week, then disappear into the shadows again.

 

[thoughtpyotr]

Release a song right now called "Game of Thrones Fidget Spinner featuring Spiderman Homecoming" and rake in the cash for the next week, then disappear into the shadows again.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://soundcloud.com/pedropeedro/game-of-thrones-fidget-spinner-featuring-spiderman-homecoming

 

[thoughtpyotr]

Personally, all the music I listen to is stuff I've discovered either by word of mouth or by looking for new music. If the music is good, that is plenty. Clickbait just tells me the artist believes it has to rely on tasteless marketing to get anyone to care about them (they know this from experience) and that's why none of those artists have ever appealed to me because their music is never that good. Sometimes it's not bad, just not that good.

this is a tangent: idk if you're on FB but have you noticed all of these guys that are doing like "trap" covers or Little Richard metal covers?
These guys go viral but then their bands disappear. I guess you wouldn't really call them artists as much as opportunists.

 

[JohnIce]

this is a tangent: idk if you're on FB but have you noticed all of these guys that are doing like "trap" covers or Little Richard metal covers?
These guys go viral but then their bands disappear. I guess you wouldn't really call them artists as much as opportunists.

I don't know if I know exactly what you're referring to, but I do see a lot of "This Adele/Ed Sheeran/Bieber song just hit no. 1, let's race to be the first to make a metalcore cover of it!" which I think is incredibly lame. That's just me though, I know there are lots of people who really enjoy that so who am I to judge, it just seems quite transparent to me, opportunistic for sure. Like, I totally get that you like Taylor Swift but she's made a lot of albums with lots of good songs, why are you covering her latest hit within a week of release? Clearly you're just riding the wave of hype, next week you'll be covering whatever is hot by then and you don't even know what it is yet. I don't debate that it is effective marketing, but I think it shows a lack of integrity and artistic vision all the same.

- edit - To clarify, I don't mind if you do that once or twice because you happen to fall right in love with a new song, but when bands make a "youtube career" out of doing it week after week I think it's lame.

 

[Ebony]

I think it is futile to fight this.

The overwhelming majority is happy about selling themselves like prostitutes to solicit attention that translate into cash.
This isn't something new. Every media platform since the bronze age has ended up working the same way. The internet wasn't going to stay a pure virgin forever.
It was inevitably going to turn into a reflection of the real world, where the majority is fake bullshit and the minority is real.

The people who prefer to stay truly genuine usually represent a niche interest with a devoted crowd.
They don't depend on the click-money, they don't care about the attention and they disdain the sensationalism.
For everyone else, the order of the day is the dog-eat-dog world known as the pop-culture entertainment industry.

To me, the type of attention you get from click-bait is the same kind of attention you get from being the kid in school that's eating worms. But apparently, most people prefer this.

 

[thoughtpyotr]

- edit - To clarify, I don't mind if you do that once or twice because you happen to fall right in love with a new song, but when bands make a "youtube career" out of doing it week after week I think it's lame.

Yeah a buddy of mine does this. He's gotten some views on youtube but anything original doesn't nearly get as much attention. It's kinda like the reach doesnt translate to his other stuff