Ex-MEGADETH Guitarist MARTY FRIEDMAN: People Overuse The Phrase 'Play With Feeling'

[Volteau]

An interesting article on one of the biggest debates in guitar history:

Ex Megadeth Guitarist Marty Friedman: People Overuse The Phrase 'Play With Feeling' - Blabbermouth.net

What are your thoughts on the whole "feel" debate (subjective vs objective, feel vs content, and so on).

 

[Mprinsje]

I always associated "playing with feeling" with it having any musical value. Not just mind-numbig ripping of notes but actually trying to convey emotion in your music, be it fast guitar playing or just simple chords.


Of course, i can't play fast or write music based on any emotion except "hey that sounds cool" anyways so who am i to talk.

EDIT: inb4 "oh this thread again"

 

[haffner1]

This is a hard one to even begin to speak about. I think there is definitely a sweet spot between the two extremes, but where that spot is, is a big point of contention. Like he said in the article "It's wonderful music if it makes people happy.". It's one thing to "play with feel", but if you have poor technique, you will limit yourself. Conversely, music that tends to center on technique can start to lose touch with the audience, which is also counter productive. Case in point, most times I would rather listen to a solo by Alex Skolnick than MAB. Even though I respect his chops, and he is awesome dude who has done huge things for a lot of players, his perfect technique lends a certain sterility most times that just doesn't draw you in as much.

 

[Sebski]

I think a point he might be trying to make is that music isn't necessarily about the 'feel', but whether the writing is tasteful or not. Someone can write a technical masterpiece that isn't necessarily interesting, and the same goes for someone writing a solo with feel.

To me, if the music is well written with tasteful and interesting melodies and rhythms, and is memorable, then it's a good piece of music. Regardless of technicality or feel.

 

[JohnIce]

Hats off to Marty! I totally agree on everything he said.

 

[leftyguitarjoe]

Any time someone says something about playing with feel, I feel an indescribable rage boiling within me.

Go take your feel and shove it up your ass. As long as you like what you're playing, thats all that matters.

 

[tedtan]

Musicians into technical music dismiss playing with feel. Who'd have thunk?

Seriously, though, I don't think there is a single "playing with feel". To me, it means to play what the music calls for. To communicate something to the listener.

If you're playing a fast, pissed off piece of music, maybe it calls for an even more pissed off solo to take it over the top. Or maybe it calls for something calm and controlled to bring things down before kicking it back up after the solo. Maybe another song calls for something completely different.

What does the music call for? What is it within you that you need to express to someone else that you can't say with words? Play that and you're playing with feel.

 

[leftyguitarjoe]

Also, ever notice how anyone that has ever said "Nah man, I like to play with feel" usually isn't very good at playing?

It's that guy who has been playing for 20 years and his greatest achievement is playing the solo to Comfortably Numb.

 

[Andromalia]

Do: Just write music, and master the techniques to play it.
Don't: make a list of techniques you want to use and then write the music.

 

[asher]

Musicians into technical music dismiss playing with feel. Who'd have thunk?

Seriously, though, I don't think there is a single "playing with feel". To me, it means to play what the music calls for. To communicate something to the listener.

If you're playing a fast, pissed off piece of music, maybe it calls for an even more pissed off solo to take it over the top. Or maybe it calls for something calm and controlled to bring things down before kicking it back up after the solo. Maybe another song calls for something completely different.

What does the music call for? What is it within you that you need to express to someone else that you can't say with words? Play that and you're playing with feel.

I'm actually pretty sure that was his point, along with the corollary that technique and "shredding" is also not the be-all end-all.

ed: I guess that's actually directed at us not Marty

 

[Chemical-Pony]

Also, ever notice how anyone that has ever said "Nah man, I like to play with feel" usually isn't very good at playing?

It's that guy who has been playing for 20 years and his greatest achievement is playing the solo to Comfortably Numb.

You mean like David Gilmour?

 

[PlumbTheDerps]

Marty Friedman seems like one of those people who will never agree with almost any statement about music or art just to be contrarian. Every video I've ever seen of him has been more about saying "Don't do this, it's stupid," than "Do this, it works." I guess that's fine, but when you're that idiosyncratic about everything it starts to become kind of obnoxious.

 

[Necris]

Those who talk about playing with feeling seem to define "feeling" completely arbitrarily from player to player in an effort to downplay the abilities of musicians who are technically skilled but uninteresting to them personally or, more commonly, whose abilities they envy (ie: "yeah, he's fast, but he has no feeling").

 

[JohnIce]

Musicians into technical music dismiss playing with feel. Who'd have thunk?

Seriously, though, I don't think there is a single "playing with feel". To me, it means to play what the music calls for. To communicate something to the listener.

If you're playing a fast, pissed off piece of music, maybe it calls for an even more pissed off solo to take it over the top. Or maybe it calls for something calm and controlled to bring things down before kicking it back up after the solo. Maybe another song calls for something completely different.

What does the music call for? What is it within you that you need to express to someone else that you can't say with words? Play that and you're playing with feel.

Spot on! Aristotle said that all great art is defined by having "unity". Meaning all the ingredients (lyrics, scales, tempo etc.) make sense together, the sum becomes more than the parts. It's not just about making parts fit together, it's about choosing parts that belong together. The easiest way to achieve this, probably the only way, is to start with defining the "feel" and then letting that inspire what you play. The feel could be defined by lyrics or a riff or drumbeat, but whatever it is it should be the boss and the starting point for the rest of the arrangement. Just like a film score is based on the story on the screen, and not just a random collection of cool orchestra music

If you just decide to play "stuff" that "fits" because they're in the same key and tempo or whatever, then you're probably not gonna get the unity that Aristotle was talking about. And resort to saying "Well you just don't get it!" when people don't get it.

- edit -
This is what can happen when you really, really don't have unity. Like, none.

 

[InfestedRabite]

Also, ever notice how anyone that has ever said "Nah man, I like to play with feel" usually isn't very good at playing?

It's that guy who has been playing for 20 years and his greatest achievement is playing the solo to Comfortably Numb.

no, actually

for me it tends to be guys who got out of playing / listening to metal so much and now enjoy playing way more chill, often improvisational music, and prioritise phrasing/feel over shreds/technique-fests

did someone playing with feel do something horrible to you once ???

 

[GraemeH]

Also, ever notice how anyone that has ever said "Nah man, I like to play with feel" usually isn't very good at playing?

I'm with you - the number of times I've seen a YouTube video and because the guy has a phrase in it where he plays with some speed for a few seconds, you get the pseudo-elitists writing comments like "this is just pointless technicality, I prefer to play with FEELING/SOUL/PASSION" (choose your cliché as appropriate).
Then you check his playing on his channel and he just randomly meanders around within a scale over a two chord backing track playing nothing of any musical relevancy or class, he just think's it has "feeling" because he holds notes for a long time...

It's all a meaningless false dichotomy anyway. Intensity is a "feel" in music, and one of the ways to express intensity in music is speed.

Anyone that calls Marty out for being technical is wide of the mark in my opinion anyway - he plays intensively often on his last solo record, but he clearly doesn't give much thought to being technically "precise" and "clean" - his unusual right-hand picking technique means a lot of notes are left to ring out and slur. Which, ironically, makes it sound more intense and gives it more "feel", to me.

 

[MrEzzyE]

Well... if I practice some lick there is not much "feel" or "emotion" in there, but when I have learned it the "passion" comes in automatically. If you listen to what you play and love what you hear the passion will be there.

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

Also, ever notice how anyone that has ever said "Nah man, I like to play with feel" usually isn't very good at playing?

Just about every time, yeah

I find it's a very fine line between mindless technique and relying on what you're "feeling" you know? It's important to have good technique to better express yourself, but it's not always effective to flaunt that technique in a sparkly wank-fest in an attempt to show emotion.

I'd much rather listen to Chris Letchford blow me away with his technique and composition than hear Slash "feel" his way through the same worn out pentatonic scale quarter-bending every note or watch Rusty Cooley rip around the fretboard like a hummingbird on speed

 

[Dayn]

Too many people conflate 'feeling' or 'soul' with 'oh what a poor tortured soul, I'm going to pretend to cry'. It's usually triggered by raising the pitch of a note one quarter or half the way to the next highest note over a prolonged period. Bonus if you can do it multiple times, and if you can do it in reverse, you've just unleashed a torrent of tears.

My preferred emotions are happy, frantic, excited and energetic. All of which are dismissed as 'playing without feeling' or 'too technical' because it doesn't tap into that raging sexual attraction to blues that so many guitarists seem to have.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. But emotions other than 'sad' exist, and sometimes 220bpm power metal where every instrument including vocals are virtuosic is the perfect expression of happiness and energy. That's the emotion I put into playing when I play in that style, anyway. It moves me, excites me, and makes life feel epic.

If that's emotionless, then I'm happy to be a robot. It doesn't explain why I need to practice more though. Isn't there an upgrade for that?

 

[leftyguitarjoe]

no, actually

for me it tends to be guys who got out of playing / listening to metal so much and now enjoy playing way more chill, often improvisational music, and prioritise phrasing/feel over shreds/technique-fests

did someone playing with feel do something horrible to you once ???

I'm one of those guys actually. I got off the metal train and switched to playing post-rock and borderline radio rock. I served my time on the metal circuit learning alot of really useful techniques that I can use now need it be.

I'm talking about the guy who dismisses technicality and suffers because of it. I learned all the tough stuff and my playing as a whole improved. For example, instead of using tapping for some 32nd note metal flurry, I use it to make bouncy or mellow passages. Same technique, different execution. Those who dismiss the technique altogether are deliberately limiting their creative freedom. Thats why I cant stand it when I get flack for it.