Explorin' mah 7-string options...

[Drew]

I know this may be blasphamy, but here goes...

Do you honestly NEED a seven string acoustic for recording, or will a down tuned six do? I recorded some stuff in B on my Martin D-28, and it sounded absolutely amazing. It should, since it is a $1800 guitar. If you need to do some stuff in B, and some in E (or G or whatever), then multitrack it. Live, it all gets played on the electric, anyway, so don't spend money on a fair 7-string acoustic, when you can record on a much better 6-string.

+1. I'm hardly a "big name" seven string player, but when I want an acoustic tone, I grab my Martin (MC16-GTE - not quite a D-28, but I also paid a grand less). Half the time I don't even bother to detune, because I like the fact it forces me to arrange in different registers. That said, an acoustic in D or below, with appropriately heavy strings, is an absolutely phenominal sound.


Would I like to have a 7-string acoustic? Sure I would. And one day if I ever find myself in a musical situation that would justify it and a financial situation that would cover it, I'd love to have a custom 7 built. However, for recording, my six has been at least serviceable (and at most, perfect) for everything I've wanted to do with it.

And, for your money you can probably get a better sounding, better playing 6 than you're likely to find in a seven, without a LOT of luck.

Hell, a buddy of mine is a regular over at the Taylor forums, and has scored some 3-series Taylors at absurd prices in the past - if you want, I could put out a feeler or two for you.

 

[Nik]

Thanks for your help.

I'll have to check. I'm graduating soon, so this is graduation present we're talking.

Anyway, I suppose I could live without an accoustic 7, but I really wanted one...

When it comes to accoustic 6s, I've been looking a lot at Ovations. What do you guys think? Are they any good? They are really comfy and look great, plus they have a pre-amp and can be direct-recorded.

Drew-thanks for your offer. I've heard Taylors are great, but they may be a bit over my head. Roughtly what kind of possible prices are you talking about?

I'm gonna e-mail Eric soon and see what kind of price he can get me on the Ibanez 7 and on Ovations...

 

[noodles]

Ovations are the best live acoustic guitars, PERIOD. There is nothing even close to them on the market. For micing, though, go buy the real thing. There are exceptions (eaeolian has a pretty sweet sounding Ovation), but for the most part,that's not what they're designed for.

What is your price range?

EDIT: Just went to the first page and saw it is around $700. There are some excellent entry level Martins and Taylors in that range.

 

[Drew]

I saw the guy grab a 3-series for $500 once, used, simply because he knew he could sell if for more than that. If I'd had a spare $500, I'd have bought it off him then and there (this was college, and you guys know how I drink, lol). I'd say for $700 or less, there's a good chance you might be able to find something - hell, I paid $800 cased for my Martin, you're looking at the threshold at which you can start to find top-name acoustics used.

That said, if you want a good guitar, it's not a bad idea to just walk into a shop and start playing stuff - every once in a while you find a $400 acoustic that just speaks to you.

 

[Nik]

Ovations are the best live acoustic guitars, PERIOD. There is nothing even close to them on the market. For micing, though, go buy the real thing. There are exceptions (eaeolian has a pretty sweet sounding Ovation), but for the most part,that's not what they're designed for.

What is your price range?

EDIT: Just went to the first page and saw it is around $700. There are some excellent entry level Martins and Taylors in that range.

I'd be interested in hearing a direct-recorded Ovation.

All I know is that Al Di Meola, who is my accoustic-guitar hero, praises them and their tone, and they are extremely comfortable, and I love how they look, so they're the only accoustic I've ever seriously looked into (other than the Ibanez 7).

I'm not necessarily looking for $10,000 uber-awesome pro-accoustic tone, I just want something that I can use for my songs that sounds acceptable my today's heightened tone standarts.

From what I've read on-line, Ovations absolutely kick-ass in terms of tone, and the only issue with them is that, when not plugged in, they don't project very well, but I have a nice amp so that's not an issue for me...

Why couldn't Ovation make a 7... I'd be all over that. Oh, and my price range would be preferably under $700.

But again, how good do accoustic simulators and the Podxt accousitc simulator sound? Would that work really well for my 7?

 

[Nik]

*shameless bump*

I know someone here has a Podxt live, and I'd love to know how well the accoustic simulator sounds and if it's a better idea to get a $400-ish Ovation and a Podxt live rather than a $700+ guitar.

Also, any thoughts on Ovations would be appreciated.

Sorry for the bump, I'd really like to gather a few thoughts before I go out and spend a shitload of money. Thanks...

 

[jim777]

I have an '84 Ovation Custom Legend, and it is awesome. When I got it, the top had a crack and the truss rod was broken. I sent it back to the Ovation mothership rather than give it to a repair shop and Ovation:
1.removed the fretboard, replaced the truss rod and put the fretboard back on
2. ground and polished all the frets
3. stripped the top, repaired the cracks, and refinished it
4. reseated the neck, gave it a once over and setup

Total? 300 bucks. It's basically a new guitar now, and it's ALWAYS within arm's reach. It's one of two guitars that are always close to me. Now new, this would probably be about $1300 and is closest to teh Al DiMeola model (but with a shallow bowl), but I got mine for 400 due to the now repaired damage. The go for 700-900 on eBay. If you want a good Ovation at a decent "in" price, join ovationfanclub.com and hang out for a bit, and pull one out of their classifieds

jim

 

[Nik]

Thanks!

And Drew-Which model Taylor/Martin are you suggesting that's in my price range? I don't think I've seen a Taylor with a cutaway under $1500.

 

[noodles]

I'd be interested in hearing a direct-recorded Ovation.

Plugged in, they sound like...well, an acoustic guitar with a piezo bridge and a good preamp. Does it sound like an acoustic? No, or not to me, at least. If you're going to direct record an acoustic, get one of those Line6 acoustics, since they sound better than anything else out there. They do a really great job simulating a mic'ed acoustic.

If you want to know what an Ovation sound like mic'ed, go to our MySpace page and give Greed a listen. That's Eaeolian's Ovation.

 

[Nik]

Plugged in, they sound like...well, an acoustic guitar with a piezo bridge and a good preamp. Does it sound like an acoustic? No, or not to me, at least. If you're going to direct record an acoustic, get one of those Line6 acoustics, since they sound better than anything else out there. They do a really great job simulating a mic'ed acoustic.

If you want to know what an Ovation sound like mic'ed, go to our MySpace page and give Greed a listen. That's Eaeolian's Ovation.

That's some cool stuff noodles, thanks for that link. That music seriously rocks

Sorry to bring back this kind of old thread (better than starting a new topic, anyway) but does anyone know what kind of accoustic 7 John Petrucci uses on Change of Seasons? Is it the Ibanez? Because I really like his tone there...

 

[bostjan]

[action=bostjan]hates ovations!!!!!![/action]

Ibanez yes. Once again. If you want super high quality acoustic, you will have to spend a lot of money. If you don't have the cash to spend, your options will be limited. If you want a cutaway, go for the Ibanez if you can find one. If you can't stand the jumbo body, go for an Emerald, if you can't afford that, get an el cheapo Russian-made folk guitar and put some decent strings on it, if that's too low quality, then you are pretty much screwed.

You will have to make some concessions or spend extra.

 

[Nik]

[action=bostjan]hates ovations!!!!!![/action]

Ibanez yes. Once again. If you want super high quality acoustic, you will have to spend a lot of money. If you don't have the cash to spend, your options will be limited. If you want a cutaway, go for the Ibanez if you can find one. If you can't stand the jumbo body, go for an Emerald, if you can't afford that, get an el cheapo Russian-made folk guitar and put some decent strings on it, if that's too low quality, then you are pretty much screwed.

You will have to make some concessions or spend extra.

Might I ask why you hate Ovations?

I really like his accoustic tone, though, I just hope the really high notes on the Ibanez sound as good as the low notes.

And there's nothing I'd love more in this world than to get my hands on an Emerald 7, but unless someone can sell me one under $1000, then it ain't happening.

 

[bostjan]

I hate Ovations because

1) They don't make a seven string
2) You can't play them sitting down
3) The wood tops expand during the humid summer and crack off of the plastic back
4) The necks feel funny to me, being too narrow and v-shaped
5) Everyone worships them regardless of 1-4

I love the sound of jumbo acoustics because of the added bass and reduced upper midrange. The high notes don't cut through the mix if you just mic the thing, but since you are talking about going direct, I would think this issue is moot. I always blend in a little piezo, or a lot of piezo if there are drums, and I think it sounds very present and alive.

I'd love an Emerald 7, too. Since Ibanez has discontinued the AJ307CE, you may have a hard time finding one. I got mine brand new for around $700, i think, so a used one should be significantly cheaper than $1000.

 

[Nik]

I hate Ovations because

1) They don't make a seven string
2) You can't play them sitting down
3) The wood tops expand during the humid summer and crack off of the plastic back
4) The necks feel funny to me, being too narrow and v-shaped
5) Everyone worships them regardless of 1-4

I love the sound of jumbo acoustics because of the added bass and reduced upper midrange. The high notes don't cut through the mix if you just mic the thing, but since you are talking about going direct, I would think this issue is moot. I always blend in a little piezo, or a lot of piezo if there are drums, and I think it sounds very present and alive.

Yikes, #3 sounds scary. And I always thought that, because of the rounded bowl shape, they'd be real comfy sitting down

Anyway, high notes not cutting through the mix is really troubling, especially knowing that I'll be doing improv solos, so I won't be able to double stuff w/piezo... How much of an issues is it, and how much would a new, good piezo cost assuming that the Ibanez Fishman is indeed crap?

EDIT: Wait, Ibanez have discontinued it? Then why is it still on their official site? Hmm... See:

http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=AJ307ECENT

Dude, just curious, do you have any recordings made with your Ibanez?

Thanks for all your help...

EDIT 2:

Do you guys know anything about these guitars:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Raines-7-String...391300241QQcategoryZ47064QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And here's something to drool over:

http://cgi.ebay.com/D7-Roger-McGuin...390400114QQcategoryZ33028QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[bostjan]

I have three songs from '98 that I used it on. I'm not terribly proud of them. I think you just inspired me to make another one.

I heard they discontinued it, maybe they didn't. It wasn't in their 2006 catalog. if you're recording, just do two tracks at the same time: mic and piezo. You won't have to play anything twice, although playing twice really thickens the sound.

 

[Drew]

You might be able to snag a secondhand 300-series for less than 800 if you do your homework, Nik.

As for JP's CoS, did he have his piezos by then?

 

[jim777]

You can't play an Ovation sitting down? Do you have leg issues or something? I have no problem whatsoever playing mine while sitting, and it's a shallow bowl. they have a new bowl now anyway, so maybe you just stopped looking after you dismissed them. I might add I've never seen a top come off an Ovation either, ever. I think I got my first in '76, but I don't remember. If you don't like the soft V neck, then there's not much you can do about them. Tough to play or like a guitar with an uncomfortable neck.
A high end O is a great guitar though, but obviously not for everybody.

 

[Nik]

You might be able to snag a secondhand 300-series for less than 800 if you do your homework, Nik.

As for JP's CoS, did he have his piezos by then?

Any tips on how/where I would go about doing my homework? Also, I might be willing to go a tad higher for a secondhand 7 string emerald...

And I don't think JP got piezos till he switched to Music Man...

Thanks for your help, guys...

jim777-what about lower-end Ovations like this one:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Acoustic?sku=513274

 

[Tubbs Mcgee]

7 String acoustics are really weird...

I'd definitely get one if I had the money.

And BTW, I really like Ovations.

 

[ibanez.shredder]

That's some cool stuff noodles, thanks for that link. That music seriously rocks

Sorry to bring back this kind of old thread (better than starting a new topic, anyway) but does anyone know what kind of accoustic 7 John Petrucci uses on Change of Seasons? Is it the Ibanez? Because I really like his tone there...

AFAIK he dosn't use an acoustic at all. It would've been his piezo-equipped Ibanez JPM Desert Storm: