Fake Shredders

[Lorcan Ward]

Judging from what I've seen on Facebook his image has been irreparably damaged after he was called out by Fountainhead and countless other high profile players. Instead of lots of comments praising his playing there's endless "midi, fake etc" ones. As much as you can delete comments on your own pages there's nothing you can do on re-shares.

If you're going to cheat expect to be eventually called out. I'm surprised this didn't happen years ago. I can't imagine having that much negative attention pointed at you. I think most people would be content if him and others were just honest that they surgically edit their playing and posted actual raw camera audio every know and then.

 

[Jonathan20022]

I respect the other side of the discussion in regards to the folks that disagreed with me. Although we dont see eye to eye on the need to call him out and shame him. I think Science Penguin put it best

Jesus...

And you know where this is going too. He posts a video claiming it's "raw" with these obvious mistakes so, when people inevitably call him out, he can brush it off with, "Ugh, there's just no pleasing you people! Forget it, clearly you're just going to go digging to find something wrong with any video I post about it, so I'm not going to bother."

This is just a card to impress the people who can't tell the difference and dont care and chalk all the controversy to 'haters' in a cringey teenage rant about the negativity pointed towards him. I commented on my friends post yesterday I think, why didnt he just turn down the midi if the point of the live raw take was to prove a point. Hes hiding behind it 100%, but I'm personally not upset over it.

I dont spend as much time on Facebook since guitar groups on there are hot unmoderated echo chamber garbage dumps. But I did see Fountain Heads video on my feed, crazy if he directed it at Charles and ruined his rep to that extent.

 

[lurè]

I think he can only impress very young people or someone who has less then a year of playing.
The vast majority of experienced players can see from a mile how he's faking and don't even bother to bash him.

Unless you're looking for the internet drama, you can simply ignore him and go back listening to the "sloppy" ones like Friedman.

 

[Seabeast2000]

It's not morally wrong... I usually pay extra for deception.

Your hair is TD4!!!

 

[Fenriswolf]

I remember speeding up one of my own old covers on my youtube channel and it was the biggest pain in the ass to do it instead of just practicing licks and riffs until they're tight and you can record the riffs up to speed. But I value my own personal guitar milestones more than the minor amount of people that watch my videos, so I put more time into my covers and personal playing.

Even if I put the exhaustive effort into half speed recording my guitar playing just to impress randoms online, the only person negatively impacted in that situation is myself that's just the truth.

That's the thing I don't get. Pretty much everything I've recorded is just hit record and play the song. I've tried to go back and edit one track I've recorded and it wound up more fucked up sounding than it was before I started messing with it.

Also, semi relevant

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

That's the thing I don't get. Pretty much everything I've recorded is just hit record and play the song. I've tried to go back and edit one track I've recorded and it wound up more fucked up sounding than it was before I started messing with it.

Also, semi relevant

Is this Top of the Pops or some shit? I think taking the piss like this is pretty funny.

 

[Charlie Foxtrot 3rd]

Yeah, but the issue isn't the recorded music. I'm with you on that - if it sounds good, then great. The issue that the guy brings up is that there are people on youtube who are putting up play through videos that they're not actually playing through. It just seems weird to say, "Look at me play this fast passage - betcha can't do this!" and then find out that the guy didn't actually play it. I'm not sure how much it matters to me, in that I'm pretty sure I can't play as well as ANY youtube guitarist , but I do hate liars and people who pretend they're something they're not.

Totally agree, I lose all respect for a person who lies about their abilities or just in general. Earn the skill and you’ll earn my respect and appreciation.

Charlie Foxtrot 3rd

 

[ICSvortex]

Also, semi relevant

Well i read about this incident somewhere and the station that they played for insisted on a track playing and the band just acting along, but since they didnt want that, they just made a joke out of it, which i think is amazing

But my 2 cents about this topic are that honestly, who cares?
i mean, there was never a shred of doubt in my mind that the berried alive dude was just using gp6. Same with lucas mann and also i never thought that jason richardson recorded that at full speed (even if he can play it live after a while). Sure some people will be fooled but those are the same people who think ariana grande is hitting those high notes perfectly every concert or britney spears can do those dances without it affecting the voice even in the slightest...

 

[Chokey Chicken]

Well i read about this incident somewhere and the station that they played for insisted on a track playing and the band just acting along, but since they didnt want that, they just made a joke out of it, which i think is amazing

But my 2 cents about this topic are that honestly, who cares?
i mean, there was never a shred of doubt in my mind that the berried alive dude was just using gp6. Same with lucas mann and also i never thought that jason richardson recorded that at full speed (even if he can play it live after a while). Sure some people will be fooled but those are the same people who think ariana grande is hitting those high notes perfectly every concert or britney spears can do those dances without it affecting the voice even in the slightest...

Nirvana did the same on Top of the Pops only they gave Kurt a live mic. Best rendition of Smells Like Teen Spirit out there. I suggest looking it up if you haven't seen it yet. I'd post it here now, but mobile is clunky for me at 5am.

 

[Jonathan20022]

Something I thought about last night, what are people's takes on Protest the Hero?

Specifically Kezia, because although that's a beloved album by anyone who really digs that band, they openly admitted to writing stuff that was above their paygrade and practiced until they got it tight. That album might not have existed without tools for tabbing to lay out their creative minds down and write what they truly wanted to write, at worst they probably played a few months worth of shoddy live renditions of the songs and by the time it came to record they were most of the way there. It's far more mild obviously, but curious what folks think considering how binary some people's thoughts on the topic are.

 

[Eptaceros]

Compositional tools are just that, every generation works with what they have. PtH wrote difficult songs, practiced their butts off, and then played it for real when it came time to record. Nothing but respect for that. Some of the guys in Meshuggah write like this a lot of the time, they write it out first and then learn it. What do you think orchestral composers do, play every individual instrument first?

 

[GunpointMetal]

What do you think orchestral composers do, play every individual instrument first?

They also don't post videos of themselves pretending to play every instrument attempting to gain the respect of each niche instrument fans. The deception/issue isn't that they're using modern tools to compose, its that they're pretending they didn't in some capacity.

 

[skmanga]

Something I thought about last night, what are people's takes on Protest the Hero?

Specifically Kezia, because although that's a beloved album by anyone who really digs that band, they openly admitted to writing stuff that was above their paygrade and practiced until they got it tight. That album might not have existed without tools for tabbing to lay out their creative minds down and write what they truly wanted to write, at worst they probably played a few months worth of shoddy live renditions of the songs and by the time it came to record they were most of the way there. It's far more mild obviously, but curious what folks think considering how binary some people's thoughts on the topic are.

Damn PTH..
Thinking about all of this on the 1 hand makes me feel like beating myself up for beating myself up over the years. I put a lot of pressure on myself to live up to the the music I was hearing from other artists as a guitarist. Come to find out things aren't like I imagined.

I've spent a lot of my guitar playing life looking up to artist that likely could not play what they wanted, they way they wanted, while also being someone who couldn't play what I wanted to, the way I would have liked on my instrument.
In a hard headed way I pushed and pushed even while achieving minimal results, until some small "breakthrough" would happen and it got me one tiny step closer to living up to the idea of the type of guitarist I think I should be in my head.

From that perspective it stings to find out that even beloved albums like "Kezia" weren't recorded "naturally", whatever that means in this day and age!?..
But at the same time its refreshing to realize on some level at least, that I don't have to beat myself up and it contributes towards freeing me to become the guitarist I can be, without thinking about what or how anyone else achieves what they achieve.
It's been quite the trap for me.

I guess its just me.
I love listening to Berried alive from time to time, but then hearing that its "fake" in any way brings out a kind of refreshing resentment lol...

I guess the healthiest way for me to look at this issue is, "you do you, imma do me" and try not to focus on the accomplishments of others and how they achieve what they achieve.
That should empower my path and give me the room I need to continue to grow to be exactly the kind of guitarist that I would like to be.

EDIT: Thanks for reminding me about how badass Kezia is!
Got the album playing as I write this

 

[Eptaceros]

The deception/issue isn't that they're using modern tools to compose, its that they're pretending they didn't in some capacity.

I know, we're saying the same thing here, bud. Compositional tools are just compositional tools. I don't think there's any parallel to be drawn here with half-assed mimers.

Not really sure what Jonathan20022 is getting at here. Are you looking down at bands that write complex stuff before they can play it? How do you think music is composed half the time? You think the guys in Defeated Sanity just come up with their german frank zappa riffs on the spot with instruments at hand??

 

[GunpointMetal]

I know, we're saying the same thing here, bud. Compositional tools are just compositional tools. I don't think there's any parallel to be drawn here with half-assed mimers.

Not really sure what Jonathan20022 is getting at here. Are you looking down at bands that write complex stuff before they can play it? How do you think music is composed half the time? You think the guys in Defeated Sanity just come up with their german frank zappa riffs on the spot with instruments at hand??

Ah, I see, I see. Yeah, I would HOPE most musicians making technical music would be pushing what they're capable of. For me personally, I write stuff all the time that is outside my ability, or shit that I can play sitting down, but not standing on stage because I can't climb over the guitar like I do at my computer, and then we practice till we can do it live (or at least accurately enough that it sounds like we know what we're doing, lol).

Something I thought about last night, what are people's takes on Protest the Hero?

Specifically Kezia, because although that's a beloved album by anyone who really digs that band, they openly admitted to writing stuff that was above their paygrade and practiced until they got it tight. That album might not have existed without tools for tabbing to lay out their creative minds down and write what they truly wanted to write, at worst they probably played a few months worth of shoddy live renditions of the songs and by the time it came to record they were most of the way there. It's far more mild obviously, but curious what folks think considering how binary some people's thoughts on the topic are.

Composing something beyond your ability and then woodshedding till you get it isn't the same thing as writing beyond your ability and then just pretending you put in the work.

 

[Eptaceros]

From that perspective it stings to find out that even beloved albums like "Kezia" weren't recorded "naturally", whatever that means in this day and age!?..

Why do you think it wasn't recorded naturally? It's a real recording.

 

[Jonathan20022]

I know, we're saying the same thing here, bud. Compositional tools are just compositional tools. I don't think there's any parallel to be drawn here with half-assed mimers.

Not really sure what Jonathan20022 is getting at here. Are you looking down at bands that write complex stuff before they can play it? How do you think music is composed half the time? You think the guys in Defeated Sanity just come up with their german frank zappa riffs on the spot with instruments at hand??

Holy shit dude, PtH is legitimately one of my favorite bands of all time, I'm not telling them off for it. It's a discussion point since the nuances after the fact are different but composition wise they used their tools to write music outside of their scope in the same way I some of these modern guys are but they are being disingenuous in their presentation of their product. The orchestra thought was nice to begin with but also a terrible comparison since generally flashy and fast musical pieces aren't associated with Orchestra compositions (although they can be).

It just seems like you missed my point, clearly Charles is writing music and riffs/leads he can't cleanly play but by metric is it ever acceptable?

This was my point a few pages ago, consistency in an argument matters and some of the people responding are 100% against the use of any technology to facilitate writing. And in this discussion being about Berried Alive most people here aren't really invested or longtime fans, so no loss and mostly everyone couldn't give a shit about it. You throw a more beloved band in the mix and there's suddenly more leniency and flexibility in the argument, it's just not consistent and THAT was my point in bringing up PtH. They did nothing wrong, but they BEGAN doing the same thing I'm sure Charles is doing. People can be against tool assisted musical performances, but if you're not against all of it then the argument falls flat IMO. Lying after the fact and being deceptive does not go hand in hand with someone writing overly complex music and using different tricks and methods in the studio to perform/record their tracks.

 

[Avedas]

Something I thought about last night, what are people's takes on Protest the Hero?

Specifically Kezia, because although that's a beloved album by anyone who really digs that band, they openly admitted to writing stuff that was above their paygrade and practiced until they got it tight. That album might not have existed without tools for tabbing to lay out their creative minds down and write what they truly wanted to write, at worst they probably played a few months worth of shoddy live renditions of the songs and by the time it came to record they were most of the way there. It's far more mild obviously, but curious what folks think considering how binary some people's thoughts on the topic are.

PTH plays a lot of their songs simplified live. Forget Kezia, look at Fortress. A lot of the guitar lines on the record are way trickier than what Luke especially plays live. They still do play their songs live though and it sounds awesome, so no harm no foul there.

Also BTBAM writes everything in Guitar Pro. It's no big deal.

 

[skmanga]

Why do you think it wasn't recorded naturally? It's a real recording.

Every music recording is real in the sense that it is a physical capture of sound.
How each of us personally define what constitutes whether or not an artist "cheats", is what constitutes a "natural"/"real" recording in my opinion.
It is a big part of what this topic is about.

Regarding PTH, I am going by live videos of them playing in the few years after the release of the album Kezia.
In the video's I have seen its like they're struggling to keep up live, and some sound really bad to be honest.
To me that signals some potential fuckery going on, though I was not there when they recorded in the studio.

That's also why I said "whatever that means in this day and age!?..".
I imagine very few artists record entire songs in single takes with the "benefits" of digital recording.
Though I am not criticizing recording methods or the different "tools" that artist use to capture their albums.
I'm sharing my struggle and how the whole "fake playing" concept fucked with my head as a person who plays the guitar.

 

[Fred the Shred]

Something I thought about last night, what are people's takes on Protest the Hero?

Specifically Kezia, because although that's a beloved album by anyone who really digs that band, they openly admitted to writing stuff that was above their paygrade and practiced until they got it tight. That album might not have existed without tools for tabbing to lay out their creative minds down and write what they truly wanted to write, at worst they probably played a few months worth of shoddy live renditions of the songs and by the time it came to record they were most of the way there. It's far more mild obviously, but curious what folks think considering how binary some people's thoughts on the topic are.

I love them to bits. They are also super damn tight live, as you know. I don't know if people here are so binary as to consider compositional / notation tools as "cheating" or at least that wouldn't make sense to me. If you can't play a given part you've idealized yet at speed and want to preview how it would sound or have a readily available practice / compositional tool would be considered deceitful.