Fan fret guitars and New Standard Tuning

[Rubbishplayer]

I see there is healthy interest on these boards for NST, but I have yet to find anything on applying multiscale guitars to the challenge.

While I have studiously avoided both in the past, now that I'm considering taking on NST as part of a project, it seems only logical to do so on a multiscale guitar, especially given the challenges posed by the range of tuning and the physical limitation of strings.

My quandry is that while I'm keen to acquire a new multiscale specifically for this project, I'm not keen to get into a £5k experiment which might not pan out as I hoped. Especially given that I'd be looking for a solution that would accommodate not only a trem, but potentially a piezo-based synth driver solution (e.g. RMC) and even some form of sustainer circuit. So my questions are:

1. Has anyone successfully used NST on a multiscale? If so, what were your lessons-learned and what would you recommend?
2. Has anyone even tried to apply a sustainer to a multiscale?

Dear Mods: I'm not sure if this is asking too much in one post, so I'm happy to take your guidance.

 

[ArtDecade]

Is NST that thing Fripp does? If so, I don't recall seeing him or his students doing much with fanned frets.

 

[Rubbishplayer]

Is NST that thing Fripp does? If so, I don't recall seeing him or his students doing much with fanned frets.

I also note that Napoleon didn't use tanks either, but I'm sure he would have, if available, as they would have solved some of his problems.

Seriously, Fripp is probably not inclined to change now and most of his students have moved onto tap instruments like the Warr and Stick.

But fan frets would have solved some of the challenges he faced regarding a fifths tuning system that required serious compromises when applied to a constant scale length (e.g. needing very thin top strings and very heavy gauge bottom string).

 

[ArtDecade]

Maybe. I just don't know that fanned frets help as much on 6 strings as they do with 7-8-9 strings. There might be some advantage to using a fanned system with NST - but for me, fanned frets helped the most when using Holdsworth closed chord voicings because the stretches were easier. It was less about string gauges and intonation.

 

[METÖL]

Wasn't NST invented because it's hard to tune a normal guitar all fifth? With multiscale you can maybe add a lower string and have F1 to E4 all fifths.

 

[Rubbishplayer]

Wasn't NST invented because it's hard to tune a normal guitar all fifth? With multiscale you can maybe add a lower string and have F1 to E4 all fifths.

Exactly. Indeed I believe multiscale opens up tbe possibility of fifths tun8ng to 7, 8 and 9 string guitars, with an incredible range.

Plus it removes the need for the compromise in Fripp's original NST, which necessitated the final string being only a third above the penultimate string. With all the benefits that could reap, in terms of complete consistency of fingering across strings (the reason Tom Quayle adopted the tuning he uses).

 

[wheresthefbomb]

Just here to pay my respects to the absolute master Robert Fripp.

 

[METÖL]

If I were you, I'd first try NST on a normal guitar or all fifths F1 to E4 on a baritone or production multiscale guitar to get a feel how you like the tuning before thinking about a probably custom instrument with multiscale whammy and sustainer.

 

[Rubbishplayer]

If I were you, I'd first try NST on a normal guitar or all fifths F1 to E4 on a baritone or production multiscale guitar to get a feel how you like the tuning before thinking about a probably custom instrument with multiscale whammy and sustainer.

Actually, the first thing I'm doing is asking for real-world experiences. I'm not even gonna touch my wallet until I've polled for the experience of others.

 

[_MonSTeR_]

While I have studiously avoided both in the past, now that I'm considering taking on NST as part of a project, it seems only logical to do so on a multiscale guitar, especially given the challenges posed by the range of tuning and the physical limitation of strings.

My quandry is that while I'm keen to acquire a new multiscale specifically for this project, I'm not keen to get into a £5k experiment which might not pan out as I hoped. Especially given that I'd be looking for a solution that would accommodate not only a trem, but potentially a piezo-based synth driver solution (e.g. RMC) and even some form of sustainer circuit. So my questions are:

My guess is that for the most part, most multiscale guys realistically just want to djent the living daylights out of the low string at the 1st fret and that's about it Ok, well *I* just want to djent the living daylights out of the low string at the 1st fret and that's about it

That said, if you are ultimately thinking about a £5K custom, I'd guess you can afford to take a £500 punt on a second have Ibanez RGMS7 or 8 and tell us how you go. Apply the lessons learnt from there and either sell it and move on, or sell it and go full custom.

 

[Rubbishplayer]

Just here to pay my respects to the absolute master Robert Fripp.

Let me see if I can shake your faith...

 

[ElRay]

@woland here has a fanned 6-string that he plays in either NST or all 5ths

I think if you're going multi-scale, you should be able to get all 5ths to work (I've planned-out string sets, but haven't got that way yet).

Depending on how things go, once the kids go back to school, I should (well, will, the question is how soon) have a build based off an RG7M neck I found on Reverb.

Unless you set-up your scales so that the sustainer is the parallel fret, a regular sustainer won't work. If you do something like Joel's multi-channel sustainer project at Cycfi Research, then I would think you'd be able to support any fan, unless the bass sustainers get too close to the treble pick-ups.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Yeah, I don't really see a point in going NST, which was always a compromise, if going fanned will allow you to reasonably do full fifths.

I guess if you want to take advantage of all the materials already out there for NST it's worth it.

 

[Asdrael]

The only valid answer is "hey just build it".

The more reasonable mind might say that Legator has a fairly priced 6 string fanned fret model that might make sense for you: https://legatorguitars.com/collections/ghost-1/products/g6fss?variant=45020685271264 at least until you figure out if you like the approach.

But kudos for looking into more alternate tunings, it's the single best decision I made when playing guitar. Opens up so much (and also standard tuning doesn't make sense for me but hey).

 

[Rubbishplayer]

The only valid answer is "hey just build it".

The more reasonable mind might say that Legator has a fairly priced 6 string fanned fret model that might make sense for you: https://legatorguitars.com/collections/ghost-1/products/g6fss?variant=45020685271264 at least until you figure out if you like the approach.

But kudos for looking into more alternate tunings, it's the single best decision I made when playing guitar. Opens up so much (and also standard tuning doesn't make sense for me but hey).

I always like to research first, especially when attempting something radically new. However, after searching extensively, I've yet to find anyone doing this.

I sense a prototype is needed, which I may end up building myself. Which is a pain, as I am already planning a tap guitar and didn't need the extra project.

But I still hold out for a message from someone who'll say "yeah I tried it and it sucks/rules and here's the scales/strings I found that works"...if only to make my job easier.