Fanned fret vs reverse inline?

[RobbYoung]

I've been looking for a way to have higher tension on the lower strings of my guitars, since I was a little disappointed by the 26.5" scale of my Schecter 8 string. I know that one solution is a much longer scale length, but I really like the feel of 25.5-26.5 necks, and anything much out of that feels a little odd. Some people suggest fanned frets are a solution, as you get a longer scale length on the lower strings.

But surely, if you just want another few inches of string to increase the tension, a reverse headstock would do the same? I mean, it's not like the string isn't under tension beyond the nut, so that would increase the string length by a good few inches.

Am I right? Or have I missed something?

 

[Bearitone]

From my understanding a reverse headstock would do the same thing. I'm not sure how much of an improvement it should be but in theory it should be an improvement for sure because you are lengthening that string and increasing tension.

 

[fool]

it's not the same thing, because everything over the nut isn't used. Let's say you have an E between the bridge and the nut (25.5"), with same string gauge and tension at a 27" scale you get an Eb, so the string beyond the nut does not change the tension of the string, because if so it would change the pitch. it changes the percived tension, so with a longer distance between the nut and the tuning peg you get the feeling of having less tension...
hope it makes sense to you!

 

[ElRay]

... Am I right? Or have I missed something?

It's the actual scale length, or "speaking length" -- the section of string that is actually vibrating, that is one of the factors determining tension at a given pitch. The total string length is not a factor.

The total string length, along with the friction over the nut and bridge, affect the total compliance, i.e. "perceived tension", which is a measure of how much force is needed to stretch the string. That's why one string, at a higher tension, can feel like it's under less tension when fretting on one guitar than another string, that is actually looser, but on a different guitar.

Ray

EDIT: 'ed

 

[RobbYoung]

so the string beyond the nut does not change the tension of the string, because if so it would change the pitch.

So, if I strung up my strat with a low E on every string, and tuned them all to E, the tension would be identical for every string? I find that confusing, and a little unlikely.

 

[JustFlipACoin]

Getting a reverse headstock would actually do the exact opposite. The advantage of fanned frets is that tuning the same string to the same note but at a longer scale will require more tension. Any amount of string behind the nut is still going to be under the same tension, so a reverse headstock doesn't add any.

However, because there is now more string available to bend, it actually will feel like less tension. The more string you have, the easier it will be to bend (this is sort of like why it's easier to bend at the 12th fret than, say, the 1st fret), so it will seem "floppier" even if it has the same amount of tension.

 

[JustFlipACoin]

So, if I strung up my strat with a low E on every string, and tuned them all to E, the tension would be identical for every string? I find that confusing, and a little unlikely.

They would all have the same tension, yes. However the highest E string (the one with the most string behind the nut) will feel looser because it can more easily be bent.

 

[ElRay]

So, if I strung up my strat with a low E on every string, and tuned them all to E, the tension would be identical for every string? I find that confusing, and a little unlikely.

That's basic physics. See: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/string.html (All the relevant images have transparent backgrounds.)

 

[RobbYoung]

The more string you have, the easier it will be to bend (this is sort of like why it's easier to bend at the 12th fret than, say, the 1st fret)

But I'm not concerned about how well a string can bend.

If the two ends of the string are at the peg and the bridge, doesn't physics state that the tension, frequency of vibration and length are directly proportional, so if the string's section under tension is longer, for the same note the tension must be higher?

 

[ElRay]

Getting a reverse headstock would actually do the exact opposite. ...

I'll pick this nit. The headstock will have ZERO effect on the tension of the string.

The amount of string behind the nut, along with many other factors, will affect the perceived tension when fretting & bending, that's it.

The angle of the string over the nut and saddle, will affect the downward pressure on the nut/saddle, but unless it causes the string to bind, these factors will not affect the tension along the string.

Ray

 

[fool]

But I'm not concerned about how well a string can bend.

If the two ends of the string are at the peg and the bridge, doesn't physics state that the tension, frequency of vibration and length are directly proportional, so if the string's section under tension is longer, for the same note the tension must be higher?

you forget that the string is blocked by the nut, just think how frets work...

 

[ElRay]

If the two ends of the string are at the peg and the bridge, doesn't physics state that the tension, frequency of vibration and vibrating length are directly proportional, so if the string's section under tension is longer, for the same note the tension must be higher?

FTFY.

In a nutshell: The tension is directly proportional to the square of the desired frequency and vibrating length and directly proportional to the unit density.

Check out that page I referenced.

 

[bostjan]

Having a reverse headstock doesn't do anything to the string tension. Any extra length of the string added outside of the distance between the saddle and the nut is just wasted length.

The only ways to get more tension on your string are:

A. Use a string with more mass per unit length. Maybe it's thicker, or maybe it's a more dense alloy.
B. Use a guitar with a longer scale length. The more distance between the bridge and the nut, the more tension there is.
C. Tune up. The more tension, the higher your tuning, and, the higher your tuning, the more tension.

EDIT: Took me forever to answer and I got multininja'd

 

[RobbYoung]

Okay, I see now, thanks everyone!