Few questions regarding swapping out FR Special to Original

[High Plains Drifter]

I'm looking at replacing a FR Special in my Schecter Sun Valley SS to an Original but hitting some roadblocks here-

I'm not wanting to spend an arm but I didn't realize upgrading a FR Special would be so costly. And digging deeper, seems that Original FR's are not exactly abundant around the web either... at least at the moment. I'm looking for black and that is limiting my choices even further. Stew Mac and Amazon are both out of black Original Floyd Rose. All Parts is out of black as well. On FR's site it looks like $247 for the whole shebang and that's a lot of scratch to try and quietly pull outta my wife's purse. Looks like in stock there but I dunno. Still need to figure out best plan of attack and more specifics because of the various offerings, models, etc.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Radius on this guitar is 14" but I'm seeing 10" shimmed/ 12" without. Would a 12" FR work with a radius of 14"?

I know that I can just upgrade saddles but is that worth it while I've got everything pulled apart or should I go the extra step and replace the whole thing? FWIW I'm looking for more sustain and more stable tuning. Also I like the screw-in trem arm on the Original much better than the grub-screw arm on the Special so not sure if simply a saddle upgrade would yield much in the way of performance/ longevity as opposed to the Special with just upgraded saddles.

Should I be looking at Gotoh or Schaller?

I've replaced some Fender trems and TOM's but I've never messed with a Floyd. Anything that I might need additional?

Thanks for the help.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Gotoh is the best option. They're cost effective, the highest quality, and an easy drop in...typically.

If tone and tuning are the goals, there's probably an issue unrelated to the bridge.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Thanks, max and I should've been more clear. Tone is fine but I've read some people mention that the Original has better tonal properties as opposed to the Special ( saddle material, sustain block material... zinc alloy vs steel/ zinc alloy vs brass). Tuning hasn't been an issue peruse but fine-tuning screws just don't feel "of quality" when making adjustments... overall just looks and feels cheap. Again, longevity is a concern here as well with the Special. And again with the 14" radius of this guitar, I'd like to know if a 12" radius trem will require messing with shims.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Re:radius

Ideally you'd match the radii of the nut, fretboard, and bridge if there's a single radius. But, a slight mismatch, even on very high end guitars is not uncommon, so 12" vs. 14" shouldn't be a glaring issue unless you're shooting for super low action and a lot of bends up the board.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Appreciate the clarification. I went ahead and looked into the GE1996T and yep... you hit the nail on the head. Affordable and an obvious upgrade.. nicer trem arm and mounting design, knife-edge less prone to wear, better quality base-plate, sustain block, saddles, etc. I think this is what I'm looking for. Not sure if I'll have to drill out for new studs but no worries on that end. From what you're suggesting, radius shouldn't be an issue and I can shim if necessary. Hopefully the 40 mm block will work and I guess i can leave the trem cavity cover off if necessary or replace the block at some point with a shorter 36/ 37 mm... whatever shorter block avail from Gotoh. My only concern at this point is if the saddle screws will clear the back of the route. Not sure if that would be a deal breaker as I really don't want to have to mess with removing body wood ( don't want to risk chipping the paint along that back edge) but I can deal with that if/ when the time comes.

 

[Drew]

I have yet to meet a Gotoh trem I haven't been impressed with. Their tension-adjustable arm-holder is such an improvement over a Floyd's, that they eventually introduced a version of their own.

 

[lost_horizon]

Appreciate the clarification. I went ahead and looked into the GE1996T and yep... you hit the nail on the head. Affordable and an obvious upgrade.. nicer trem arm and mounting design, knife-edge less prone to wear, better quality base-plate, sustain block, saddles, etc. I think this is what I'm looking for. Not sure if I'll have to drill out for new studs but no worries on that end. From what you're suggesting, radius shouldn't be an issue and I can shim if necessary. Hopefully the 40 mm block will work and I guess i can leave the trem cavity cover off if necessary or replace the block at some point with a shorter 36/ 37 mm... whatever shorter block avail from Gotoh. My only concern at this point is if the saddle screws will clear the back of the route. Not sure if that would be a deal breaker as I really don't want to have to mess with removing body wood ( don't want to risk chipping the paint along that back edge) but I can deal with that if/ when the time comes.

If the screws are too long (which they are at 44mm) you can buy Schaller Lockmeister ones (34mm) or any of the aftermarket ones which start at 40mm.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

If the screws are too long (which they are at 44mm) you can buy Schaller Lockmeister ones (34mm) or any of the aftermarket ones which start at 40mm.

Unfortunately I can't find any US retailers with a full set of 34 mm screws ( or anything shorter than 44 mm. Thanks, man.

 

[lost_horizon]

T

Unfortunately I can't find any US retailers with a full set of 34 mm screws ( or anything shorter than 44 mm. Thanks, man.

They are on reverb

Schaller Floyd Saddle Screws M4x34 for LockMeister 6 20613002 https://reverb.com/item/54692585?ut...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=54692585

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Ah man.. I appreciate the link. I dunno why that didn't pop up in my search. And in black which is ideal.

I also looked into the trem block and found a 33 mm on Amazon. I measured and the Special block is approx 34mm. The 40 mm block on the Gotoh would be too tall to use unless i left the trem cover off. 36 mm would work but I couldn't find any that size from any trusted retailer. I don't really care to buy from sites that I'm unfamiliar with.

My only other question now ( I think) is if there would be any benefit in replacing the locking nut. Racking up a little expense here, I'd like to leave the Original unless advised that a different nut would be somehow beneficial. So...

Gotoh GE 1996T trem
Schaller Floyd Lockmeister M4 x 34 mm saddle screws
Gotoh TB33 FR 33 mm Trem Block
D'Addario NYXL strings .009-.046

Unless I would choose to change out trem springs or nut, I think that's everything.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Tone is fine but I've read some people mention that the Original has better tonal properties as opposed to the Special ( saddle material, sustain block material... zinc alloy vs steel/ zinc alloy vs brass).

I would ask them for evidence of this.

Having done precisely that thousands of times, on many similar issues, and actually offering money or prizes for the presentation of that evidence, I can predict what you will get:

Silence
Logical Fallacies
Insults

But never even a hint of evidence beyond a personal anecdote

Tuning hasn't been an issue peruse but fine-tuning screws just don't feel "of quality" when making adjustments... overall just looks and feels cheap. Again, longevity is a concern here as well with the Special. And again with the 14" radius of this guitar, I'd like to know if a 12" radius trem will require messing with shims.

These two are valid concerns. Many people just "take it" on the Floyd's stock radius (and its funny that they do, when they will pontificate for hours on minor issues they have zero evidence of like tonewood or country of origin of the paint having some tonal distinction)

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Thanks, @pipelineaudio . I went ahead and ordered a Gotoh GE1996t trem to replace the special. Just all around better buzz around the Gotoh as opposed to the FR offerings. I replaced the Fender trem on my AmStd with a Gotoh 510 and I love the quality and styling difference and it seemed to wake up the guitar. So hopefully this will be a good choice as well.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I really like the 1996t for my seven strings. Have yet to snap a saddle, I wish they used the same sized posts as regular floyds! I'm using them with floyd posts, and so far so good, but will be trying with their actual posts in the next guitar I get. I really really really really like the push in arm, though floyds have that option now as well. I LOVE the spring retaining screws.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Yeah I'm not thrilled that I'm going to have to drill out and reset the post anchors on a brand new guitar but I've done it before so not that big of a deal. And I dunno yet.. spacing between the posts is the same so I may be able to get away without having to replace the anchors/ posts. I'll just have to see if there's any obvious drawbacks or an inability to reuse the FRS hardware.

 

[Alberto7]

Honestly, if I had a guitar with a FR Special, I would probably just replace the baseplate and the studs+inserts, everything else probably won't make a difference. Maybe the saddle inserts to titanium ones (or something stronger than whatever the originals are made of) so that they don't deform and lose their grip on the strings. Though I see you've already got yourself a Gotoh bridge, which should be a really good improvement over the FR Special.

I have an Edwards that I got used in 2021 and it came with this pretty cruddy FRT-1000. It had minor tuning stability issues, but it was annoying enough. I tried filing the knife edges, but that didn't seem help too much. The things were really rusty.

I wanted to replace it with an OFR, but OFRs have been extremely scarce for a while. I even contacted FR directly and put one of those Hot Rod OFRs on backorder. I was given a 2 month wait time in March of 2021. I even had a sales receipt, though no money was exchanged. When by July I hadn't heard back, I contacted them and was told August. August and September came and went woth no news, and I just gave up. I still haven't heard back.

In July of this year I went ahead and got an OFR replacement baseplate and studs. Honestly, that is all I needed. I did a deep clean on all the bridge components, oiled and greased everything that needed it, and it works like a charm. It honestly feels like a brand new bridge, except I paid ~170 CAD instead of 350+.

I never bothered changing the nut. I don't see a reason to, honestly. Even if it was a Floyd Rose Special, I don't know that going from a zinc-alloy to a stainless steel nut would really make a difference at all. It's like the last thing I'd change on a guitar before I've replaced everything else.

I had thought of getting a Gotoh bridge to replace it, since they are cheaper and high quality, but it's a signature guitar and I wanted to keep it close to original spec. (Considering I had swapped pickups already.)

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Yeah... I considered keeping the FRS and just replacing some parts but in the end, I wanted better saddles and overall better quality of metal ( zinc-alloy vs steel) for more defined resonance and a more comfortable trem arm. I haven't had any obvious issues with the special but it being rather inferior I didn't want to start throwing money at it... and putting a better trem arm on the special wasn't even an option.

For now I'm just keeping the FR nut as like you said, shouldn't be any real need to replace it ( brand new guitar). And hopefully I won't need shims with a 12" fret-board radius. But I did get shorter 40 mm Schaller-Hannes screws and a fresh set of NYXL 9-46's to finalize everything.

 

[Alberto7]

Yeah... I considered keeping the FRS and just replacing some parts but in the end, I wanted better saddles and overall better quality of metal ( zinc-alloy vs steel) for more defined resonance and a more comfortable trem arm. I haven't had any obvious issues with the special but it being rather inferior I didn't want to start throwing money at it... and putting a better trem arm on the special wasn't even an option.

For now I'm just keeping the FR nut as like you said, shouldn't be any real need to replace it ( brand new guitar). And hopefully I won't need shims with a 12" fret-board radius. But I did get shorter 40 mm Schaller-Hannes screws and a fresh set of NYXL 9-46's to finalize everything.

Yeah, honestly the Gotoh isn't that much more expensive than just the baseplate and studs of an OFR, and you get a fully brand new bridge that is (from what I read, never owned one myseld) every bit as high quality as an entire OFR, so you moght as well. I think I'd have done the same as you.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

I didn't want to regarding the cost ( trem plus screws came out to right at $200) and especially since the Special is brand new but yeah... once I started to add up upgrading the Special, it became clear ( with a nicer trem arm to boot) that the Gotoh was the way to go. Not looking fwd to the job if I wind up having to replace the anchors/ posts but I'm up for it and I know I'm gonna be way happier with the Gotoh. Can't wait to take this guitar that I already love, to the next level.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Its the zinc saddles themselves that regularly break on the Specials. You can find stripped out brand new ones hanging on the shelves at guitar stores. It is insanely common. Once the metal between the lock block and strong softens, the force you will need to keep the string in snaps the saddle as well.

It is weird though, I have some up till about 2016 or 2017 that held up fine, and after that the newer ones broke much more often like on some of the Jacksons, not sure if something changed at Floyd Rose. FR does sell 1000 saddle sets to replace them

 

[pipelineaudio]

Honestly, if I had a guitar with a FR Special, I would probably just replace the baseplate and the studs+inserts, everything else probably won't make a difference.

The baseplate on the special is hardened steel. Its the saddles that are made out of silly putty