Few questions regarding swapping out FR Special to Original

[High Plains Drifter]

I mean, I considered just swapping out the saddles initially but I really love the 510 that I installed on my American Standard so with a nicer trem arm, better saddles, better material and workmanship all the way round, this upgrade was a no-brainer.

And I have no bad experiences with FR Specials but I feel like on lower-end metal/ alloy products, that there isn't as much consistency in manufacturing and material QC. With higher end stuff I feel like there's more consistent quality from one batch to the next.

 

[Alberto7]

The baseplate on the special is hardened steel. Its the saddles that are made out of silly putty

Huh I did not know this. I thought it was all made out of cheaper alloys than steel, but good to know! The QC might not be as strict on them. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

I thought that I had read that the base-plate on the Special ( dunno about OFR) was zinc-alloy as opposed to the Gotoh being carbon steel. I'm not sure but I considered if that was true, I'd be better off with the Gotoh regarding wear on the knife-edge.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I'll get flamed for this surely, but (and some serious high end guitar builders are saying the same thing, which I think includes Suhr) I'd take the Gotoh 1996T over ANY floyd right now. The last OFR's weve got over the last few years have needed some finishing work to really work well. The Gotohs have been stellar out of the box every time. I hear that the part of the saddle that insnt responsible for holding the string ma be zinc, but the part that matters is steel. The spring retainers give some serious piece of mind and I believe tuning stability as well. I wish they had the actual spring retainer bar that some ibanez trems have (I think also made by gotoh)

 

[High Plains Drifter]

I've got a Korean made Schecter Blackjack and it's got the 1000 series on it. It looks, fine-tunes, and stays in tune without any issues but that guitar is from 2013. The 2023 Special that's on my new guitar feels and looks cheap in comparison.

I feel validated in spending a little more on the Gotoh from what everyone seems to say... that it's significantly nicer in all regards than comprably priced FR. A lot of Floyd stuff seems to be out of stock I also noticed. I'll have to adjust to the Gotoh's satin black co-mingling with the rest of the hardware which is gloss but I needed a shorter 36 mm block and I couldn't find that in gloss. I do think the satin looks cooler anyway so I guess I'll manage lol.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

FWIW I did the FRS to 1996 swap and just used the stock studs without issue. I don't know why people talk about needing to replace the studs as if its mandatory. Sure they offer a benefit, but I don't think it's neccesary

Also I'm gonna disagree with what was previously said and say you might actually notice a tonal improvement. Like I was skeptical myself since all I was doing the swap for was because I got the bridge cheap and I wanted to replace the shitty looking smoked chrome hardware on my guitar for real chrome... Definitely wasn't expeting any sound difference. But yeah, I actually noticed a slight improvement. The highs sounded more alive and there was more snap to the sound. Really shocked me tbh.

Drawback? I had to do some slight work to the route. Its been awhile so I don't remember, but I THINK it had to do with the fact the 1996's pop-in trem arm collar ran deeper than the FRS' screw-on arm collar, so I was knocking against the wood in the body. Since the Schecter SVSS FRS's are already equipped with a pop-in arm collar you probably won;t run into that issue and the body will probably already be routed for it

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I'll get flamed for this surely, but (and some serious high end guitar builders are saying the same thing, which I think includes Suhr) I'd take the Gotoh 1996T over ANY floyd right now. The last OFR's weve got over the last few years have needed some finishing work to really work well. The Gotohs have been stellar out of the box every time. I hear that the part of the saddle that insnt responsible for holding the string ma be zinc, but the part that matters is steel. The spring retainers give some serious piece of mind and I believe tuning stability as well. I wish they had the actual spring retainer bar that some ibanez trems have (I think also made by gotoh)

There was a time that Suhr and a few others moved to the Gotoh and actual Schaller units, but most have moved back to OFRs, mostly because that's what customers wanted and availability loosened up a bit. Didn't hurt that newer ownership of the brand lowered wholesale price and order minimums.

But yeah, Gotoh has always had better features and quality at a lower price, there just isn't as much name recognition, even more recently, than "a real Floyd" which is what everyone always asks for. I've literally done swaps on Suhrs from the Gotoh units to OFRs for clients because they just thought that the Original was by default better.

There was a pretty significant amount of time where Schaller quality was all over the place, they were getting pinched by too many OEM contracts, prioritized their direct customers and as a result quality suffered, as did availability. For awhile black OFRs were pretty much unobtainium unless you could put in a HUGE order and pay cash.

Fender pretty much restructured the whole Floyd brand, and that's where we are now.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

@HeHasTheJazzHands I really appreciate your input and the potential heads-up regarding the routing around the trem collar. Really helps to get as much info as possible before digging into this job. And I'll likely replace the anchors/ studs but it's good to know that I don't necessarily have to if I decide for any reason that I don't wanna mess with it. Thanks so much.

And I've def heard of tonality change when upgrading to the Gotoh. This particular guitar already sounds great so hopefully this swap won't brighten things up too much... especially given that it has no tone pot... eek.

 

[budda]

@HeHasTheJazzHands I really appreciate your input and the potential heads-up regarding the routing around the trem collar. Really helps to get as much info as possible before digging into this job. And I'll likely replace the anchors/ studs but it's good to know that I don't necessarily have to if I decide for any reason that I don't wanna mess with it. Thanks so much.

And I've def heard of tonality change when upgrading to the Gotoh. This particular guitar already sounds great so hopefully this swap won't brighten things up too much... especially given that it has no tone pot... eek.

If it gets brighter lower the pickups a little. Turn down presence and treble on your rig. Give yourself time to adjust.

 

[pipelineaudio]

My main guitar came with a special, replaced with an OFR but eventually got a Gotoh 1996T7. I'm using the floyd posts and it seems fine. I can see the different shape of the Gotoh post and can see that it may be even better with it, but compared to the OFR, the 1996t stays in tune great even on the floyd post
Edit: no matter how I try I cannot seem to post images...Won't allow uploads or imgur links

Here's my Gotoh

<a href=""><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

As a lifelong BMX'r, I had ZERO choice but to buy a new guitar as a donor body in order to put Floyd Rose's new oil slick Pro on as soon as oil slick became available

Turned out to be the worst piece of crap garbage even as it was Floyd's very most expensive tremolo at the time. Absolute garbage, useless fine tuners and with the added insult of needing to route even more out of the guitar for it. An auto customization shop in San Diego is offering to oil slick polished or chrome car parts, I asked if they could do a tremolo and sent them a chrome Gotoh 1996 t-7 to try and I should have the result back next week. I can't wait to toss out the Floyd Pro and put this on

<a href=""><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

 

[diogoguitar]

My main guitar came with a special, replaced with an OFR but eventually got a Gotoh 1996T7. I'm using the floyd posts and it seems fine. I can see the different shape of the Gotoh post and can see that it may be even better with it, but compared to the OFR, the 1996t stays in tune great even on the floyd post
Edit: no matter how I try I cannot seem to post images...Won't allow uploads or imgur links

Here's my Gotoh

<a href=""><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

As a lifelong BMX'r, I had ZERO choice but to buy a new guitar as a donor body in order to put Floyd Rose's new oil slick Pro on as soon as oil slick became available

Turned out to be the worst piece of crap garbage even as it was Floyd's very most expensive tremolo at the time. Absolute garbage, useless fine tuners and with the added insult of needing to route even more out of the guitar for it. An auto customization shop in San Diego is offering to oil slick polished or chrome car parts, I asked if they could do a tremolo and sent them a chrome Gotoh 1996 t-7 to try and I should have the result back next week. I can't wait to toss out the Floyd Pro and put this on

<a href=""><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

There is a discussion on another forum saying the Gotoh 1996 posts have a different "geometry" compared to the floyd rose ones. It might fit but ideally you would use gotoh post with gotoh bridges. It might "fit" but given different shapes, it might ruin the knife edges and/or posts over time .

It's on thegearpage, take a look there before you do this.

Just quoting below what other people said.. I'll try this one eventually myself



OFR-Style Locking Riser Posts and Sealed Bottom Inserts -- For Builder – Sophia Tremolos

Floyd upgrade minutia choices

I picked up a Jackson as a project guitar and am looking for some Floyd info from those who've done them. The Special has been swapped for a Gotoh 1996T. However, the Gotoh stud inserts are bigger, as are the threads. Which option would you prefer: Caveats: I'm fairly steady, but I don't have...

www.thegearpage.net

The knife edge and corresponding mating surface on the post are quite different. Floyd has a sharper knife edge on the bridge plate fitting a tight narrow post recess. Gotoh has soft knife edge fitting a larger rounded fillet on post. It may not be quite so low friction as desired. You might get away with it (I have once), or it might not return to zero accurately (others have reported this experience). If it's not working, maybe go back to the Floyd.

To illustrate this more clearly, a picture (cross section of plate/post).

I've grossly exaggerated the difference for clarity, and I'd imagine manufacturing tolerances also play a part, possibly some variation over the years as well. None of the knife edges are really knife "edges". Floyd is not really a point, but it's narrower than Gotoh.

Basically, if you put the wide plate in the narrow receptacle post, maybe it works well, maybe it's not quite there.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

@diogoguitar I genuinely appreciate this additional information.

I'm not going to go into this swap half-assed for sure. But I'll especially look at all aspects and potential fail points relating to the anchors before doing anything. For whatever reason, my IP is banned at the gear page... a forum that I've never been registered with lol so I can't get the pic(s) to load here nor read the rest of the discussion. But I understand what they're saying. I was originally likely going to stick with the FR anchors and posts but it seems as though I may be better off or forced to go with all the Gotoh parts.

I made an anchor puller some years ago and it has worked flawlessly when replacing my Strat and Hellraiser anchors although I hate that "crack" sound when breaking the anchors free from the body lol.

On a related note, my Gotoh trem and 40 mm Schaller screws arrived yesterday. I have to walk down the street to the community mailbox and as I was doing so it started pouring down rain. But knowing that the Gotoh was likely in the mailbox, I kept on my mission. I wasn't about to let that thing sit in the poorly waterproofed mailbox and on the way back I took off my hat to cover the package. I arrived back home soaked but the package stayed nice and dry lmao. The things we do to preserve our guitar/ gear investments!

 

[pipelineaudio]

Theres a pretty long discussion on the floyd rose group on facebook as well. Mine has been on for two years now. I don;t get the benefit of the gotoh's locking posts, and as diogoguitar said up above the shapes are different. That said, the 1996t on the floyd posts has done way way way way better on this guitar than the OFR 7 it replaced. Many other users say they are running on the floyd posts as well and doing ok. I would love to change out the posts, but am scared because I don't have the correct gear

But again, its been fine for two years....a dream really

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Well I'm going to take a look at the two and see if I can distinguish with my own eyes the exact issue. From what it seems, there is either a shape difference between the heads of the posts or a dimensional difference between the FR and Gotoh base-plates... maybe both. If it looks as though using the FR posts ( and subsequent anchors) will compromise any aspect of integrity than I'll do the right thing and replace. This is currently my favorite guitar so I wanna be extremely mindful of what I'm doing.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I've installed plenty of these and usually the customer doesn't want to deal with (pay for) the bushing swap, and I can't recall a single one with any issues, even years on.

Folks act like these things are delicate aerospace parts.

 

[diogoguitar]

I've installed plenty of these and usually the customer doesn't want to deal with (pay for) the bushing swap, and I can't recall a single one with any issues, even years on.

Folks act like these things are delicate aerospace parts.

haha maybe, but here is the deal: a gentleman sold me a 3-year old Ibanez. Prestige, with the original edge bridge. Should stay in tune, right?
After setting it up, giving it new strings, springs, etc... it wouldn't stay in tune.
After closer inspection, the knife edges were worn out. How can someone wear out such a quality bridge in 3 years? This thing lasted DECADES in my hands... yeah, so it needed a new bridge.

@High Plains Drifter : about getting an IP banned from TGP, do you use a VPN (like NordVPN or something)? I sometimes "have to" turn it off to access that forum

 

[MaxOfMetal]

haha maybe, but here is the deal: a gentleman sold me a 3-year old Ibanez. Prestige, with the original edge bridge. Should stay in tune, right?
After setting it up, giving it new strings, springs, etc... it wouldn't stay in tune.
After closer inspection, the knife edges were worn out. How can someone wear out such a quality bridge in 3 years? This thing lasted DECADES in my hands... yeah, so it needed a new bridge.

@High Plains Drifter : about getting an IP banned from TGP, do you use a VPN (like NordVPN or something)? I sometimes "have to" turn it off to access that forum

It probably wasn't the knife edges.

I've worked on 30+ year old trems with some gnarly knife edges that return to pitch just fine. Does that mean all knife edges in all condition will function perfectly? Of course not, but it's also not necessarily something that is as important as some folks make it out to be. Burrs, flaking of the plating, etc. are fairly common, even on what are considered "good" bridges, and it's not usually a problem. The area and geometry of how the knife edges and posts interact is incredibly forgiving.

The biggest culprit, outside of setup, is usually friction, and it's mostly caused by dirt and debris where the edges and posts meet. Good maintenance practices and a dab of white grease goes a long way in making sure your trem always comes back to zero.

Again, I didn't see your specific guitar, so I'm not going to say 100% what it was or wasn't, but in coming up on four decades and probably quadruple digits of guitars I've had past my bench I can count maybe a dozen or so I can remember with genuinely bad knife edges to the point that the guitar won't hold tune, and that being the primary reason.

Speaking specifically though, if that was the stock bridge with stock posts, and the bridge was still messed up, maybe the specific posts don't matter. Right?

 

[diogoguitar]

if that was the stock bridge with stock posts, and the bridge was still messed up, maybe the specific posts don't matter. Right?

Yeah maybe haha
Hey, random question for you... do you also believe that it is possible to make a Floyd Rose special stay in tune as well as other bridges by just swapping the saddles? Sounds too good to be true!

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Yeah maybe haha
Hey, random question for you... do you also believe that it is possible to make a Floyd Rose special stay in tune as well as other bridges by just swapping the saddles? Sounds too good to be true!

Nah, saddles don't really have anything to do with tuning stability as long as they're not borked.

Floyd Specials really aren't that bad. They usually need a deep clean and setup from the factory, but once sorted they function just fine until something eventually breaks. Folks love to crank down on the string lock bolts and then wind up breaking either a bolt or the whole saddle. If the string is slipping you just need to clean and lightly sand one side of the locking block. The factory ones usually still have a slick coating on them.

If your guitar isn't staying in tune, or not returning to zero, something is either not set right, there's friction somewhere, and/or something is moving that shouldn't. All those can be fixed regardless of bridge, you just need to know where to look and what to do.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

Just posted this in the 'happy' thread but wanted to share here as well. I'm ready to go!