Flaxwood Guitars now available at The Axe Palace !

[technomancer]

So Nick since you went out of your way to mention people who THINK they know what they're talking about, I've got to ask have you ever done anything involving injection molding? I'm curious as I've worked at a company that did the molding and a company that purchased custom injection molded parts for products.

The main cost in injection molding is the initial creation of the molds. 99.9% of the places that deal with it pay to have the molds made and outsource the actual molding to a company that does that because, as you point out, the molding machines are incredibly expensive. Once the molds are made the cost per unit is low and decreases with quantity. I'm willing to bet Flaxwood outsource the molding and that they do the finishing on the molded pieces themselves to assemble them and make them into guitars... either that or somebody had more money than brains when they started up.

The use of the cast resin/wood pulp in a hollow body should yield a highly resonant guitar that will sound cool, and be inexpensive per unit to crank out. The main cost in manufacturing these would be the initial mold creation, and since they've been in business for a couple years and assuming they're actually selling guitars they should have recouped the mold construction costs by now.

Note I'm not saying they don't sound or play good, I'm just saying that the materials used are NOT a reason to try to justify the price tag on them.

 

[MF_Kitten]

i guess they justify price with quality control and careful precise design etc.

 

[zimbloth]

So Nick since you went out of your way to mention people who THINK they know what they're talking about, I've got to ask have you ever done anything involving injection molding? I'm curious as I've worked at a company that did the molding and a company that purchased custom injection molded parts for products.

The main cost in injection molding is the initial creation of the molds. 99.9% of the places that deal with it pay to have the molds made and outsource the actual molding to a company that does that because, as you point out, the molding machines are incredibly expensive. Once the molds are made the cost per unit is low and decreases with quantity. I'm willing to bet Flaxwood outsource the molding and that they do the finishing on the molded pieces themselves to assemble them and make them into guitars... either that or somebody had more money than brains when they started up.

The use of the cast resin/wood pulp in a hollow body should yield a highly resonant guitar that will sound cool, and be inexpensive per unit to crank out. The main cost in manufacturing these would be the initial mold creation, and since they've been in business for a couple years and assuming they're actually selling guitars they should have recouped the mold construction costs by now.

Note I'm not saying they don't sound or play good, I'm just saying that the materials used are NOT a reason to try to justify the price tag on them.

I have no desire to argue Steve, I like you and what I said was nothing personal. You raise some good points, many of which are correct and that we're in complete agreement on. However it's simply more complicated than that, and there are specifics which you have wrong. I'm inclined to believe what the people at Flaxwood say about the specific process in which their guitars are made. It's nothing personal man, you'd feel the same way as me if you were in my position, given the extensive conversations I've had

I also didn't start this thread to argue about the prices. They are what they are and I don't think this is the appropriate place for that. I think they're awesome and worth every penny, but if you disagree that's of course your right dude. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Their startup/operational costs are of no concern to me really, all I care about is they they continue to make guitars that make me feel the way I did when I played them at NAMM.

Let's just try and keep this a bit more positive here There was no offense intended and you've known me long enough to know I respect you.

 

[Apophis]

Great news, CONGRATS!!!!

 

[Zugster]

i´ve wanted to try one of these for a long time... their pricing is pretty humane too, typical "expencive production guitar" price. i could see myself having one some day in the future (after the wedding haha)

Spoken like someone who is still single. The time to buy an expensive guitar is BEFORE the wedding! Trust me! haha

 

[zimbloth]

Spoken like someone who is still single. The time to buy an expensive guitar is BEFORE the wedding! Trust me! haha

Haha, I'm single too but I get that all the time from customers (ie: got to run this by the wife, the wife will kill me if i ____, etc). I guess its a small price to pay for happiness though

 

[Zugster]

Haha, I'm single too but I get that all the time from customers (ie: got to run this by the wife, the wife will kill me if i ____, etc). I guess its a small price to pay for happiness though

Actually I joke about it, but my situation is the exception that proves the rule. My wife has pretty much let me run wild buying gear. She has never once even asked how much I've spent! - and I have a pretty fair bunch of stuff. She trusts me to be self regulating, and I've gotten to the point where I sell something I don't use much in order to buy something new. Well mostly, hehe. I lucked out massively in the wife department.

 

[matty2fatty]

So Nick since you went out of your way to mention people who THINK they know what they're talking about, I've got to ask have you ever done anything involving injection molding? I'm curious as I've worked at a company that did the molding and a company that purchased custom injection molded parts for products.

The main cost in injection molding is the initial creation of the molds. 99.9% of the places that deal with it pay to have the molds made and outsource the actual molding to a company that does that because, as you point out, the molding machines are incredibly expensive. Once the molds are made the cost per unit is low and decreases with quantity. I'm willing to bet Flaxwood outsource the molding and that they do the finishing on the molded pieces themselves to assemble them and make them into guitars... either that or somebody had more money than brains when they started up.

The use of the cast resin/wood pulp in a hollow body should yield a highly resonant guitar that will sound cool, and be inexpensive per unit to crank out. The main cost in manufacturing these would be the initial mold creation, and since they've been in business for a couple years and assuming they're actually selling guitars they should have recouped the mold construction costs by now.

Note I'm not saying they don't sound or play good, I'm just saying that the materials used are NOT a reason to try to justify the price tag on them.

I spent 4 years at an injection molding facility (plastic resin) that did everything in house, they bought the molds and the machines to run them. While I agree that the molds can get expensive (we had some that ran as high as $500,000-$1M per mould), there are a lot of other expenses to take into account. For example, the actual injection machines cost several times what the molds cost, as well as support equipment, power, shipping, blah blah blah.

From my experience, the raw materials typically aren't that cheap in relation to the price of the output product. My company had to sell insanely high volumes to make any money at all. Since I'm assuming that they're not churning out super high volumes, I imagine that the costs are more than justified if they want to be able to continue operating. Price reductions would conceivably be years and years away, if a breakeven point is considered to be the time when prices reflect costs.

However, I'm not a businessman, I just ran the machines, so this is just my two cents.

In any case, they look like killer guitars and if Zimbloth can say that they're the greatest thing since sliced bread given his experience with high end guitars, then I'll take his word for it.

 

[zimbloth]

I spent 4 years at an injection molding facility (plastic resin) that did everything in house, they bought the molds and the machines to run them. While I agree that the molds can get expensive (we had some that ran as high as $500,000-$1M per mould), there are a lot of other expenses to take into account. For example, the actual injection machines cost several times what the molds cost, as well as support equipment, power, shipping, blah blah blah.

From my experience, the raw materials typically aren't that cheap in relation to the price of the output product. My company had to sell insanely high volumes to make any money at all. Since I'm assuming that they're not churning out super high volumes, I imagine that the costs are more than justified if they want to be able to continue operating. Price reductions would conceivably be years and years away, if a breakeven point is considered to be the time when prices reflect costs.

However, I'm not a businessman, I just ran the machines, so this is just my two cents.

In any case, they look like killer guitars and if Zimbloth can say that they're the greatest thing since sliced bread given his experience with high end guitars, then I'll take his word for it.

Thank you for your perspective Matty, that's interesting and definitely more along the lines of what I'm hearing from the folks at Flaxwood. It's a really complicated and expensive process indeed. I respect all opinions about these but I really didn't intend for the thread to be about business or what the prices should be. That bores me. What excites me are the guitars themselves

All I care about as a guitarist who plans on purchasing some of these for myself is that they're awesome and affordable. I've never played a guitar that goes for $1449 (or even close to that) that touches these, so that's why I'm excited.

I appreciate that you hold my opinion in high regard, I don't need people to take my word for it, I just encourage people to give these a shot if their local shops have them in stock and see for themselves. I'm not counting on selling these like hot-cakes, I just was blown away by them at NAMM and want to help spread the word on something I feel is truly special

 

[etiam]

I'll back up the comments about build feel, fit, and finish on these things. It's unlike anything else out there, really. I almost want to compare it in some respects to playing a Guitar Hero controller (sorry, I know), in that it feels like it can't be a real guitar, but not because it's cheap or unnatural in any way. Rather, they have this fluidity and economy in their form that could only be achieved through their very specific creation process.

I want one, in short.

And Zimbloth, I found the sheet from that meeting a while back that has the old MSRP figures, and from a first glance it looks absolutely like they've dropped prices. I'll pull it up sometime soon to see how things have changed specifically. But I really was thinking they were about worth the price to begin with, so to see them come down to sub $1500 is really remarkable. It's still a lot of money for a guitar, but I'd take two of these over almost any $3K guitar I've played recently.

 

[MF_Kitten]

Actually I joke about it, but my situation is the exception that proves the rule. My wife has pretty much let me run wild buying gear. She has never once even asked how much I've spent! - and I have a pretty fair bunch of stuff. She trusts me to be self regulating, and I've gotten to the point where I sell something I don't use much in order to buy something new. Well mostly, hehe. I lucked out massively in the wife department.

hahaha!

me and the wife pretty much have an understanding on the whole thing. if i make money, and save up for something i want, then i can buy it. if i sell something to pay for something else, than that's totally alright. as long as my spending doesn't interfere with our lives etc, and i keep track of money in VS money out when i buy stuff, it's all okay.

i've managed to get away with buying some expencive shit with practically no income at all, so i'm pretty sure i'll be fine

the problem right now is that we have the wedding to pay for, and so we have to cut down on any needless spending to save up the cash. so everything i buy, i sell something to fund it. after the wedding, we're going back to the same life, except we don't have anything in particular to save up for, and i can start saving up again. wee!

 

[zimbloth]

hahaha!

me and the wife pretty much have an understanding on the whole thing. if i make money, and save up for something i want, then i can buy it. if i sell something to pay for something else, than that's totally alright. as long as my spending doesn't interfere with our lives etc, and i keep track of money in VS money out when i buy stuff, it's all okay.

i've managed to get away with buying some expencive shit with practically no income at all, so i'm pretty sure i'll be fine

the problem right now is that we have the wedding to pay for, and so we have to cut down on any needless spending to save up the cash. so everything i buy, i sell something to fund it. after the wedding, we're going back to the same life, except we don't have anything in particular to save up for, and i can start saving up again. wee!

That's awesome man, good to hear. You're the exception for sure, but it's understandable. Women definitely have power over most of us, but it's nice to see some of them are supportive to their guys' passions

 

[Adam Of Angels]

Just to support the original intention of this thread, I can honestly vouch for what Nick is saying. I don't think these are the finest guitars I've played, but they're without a doubt amazing. The tone is killer and woody, rather than plastic-y, and the feel is comfortable enough to use the old "practically plays itself" cliche.

I highly recommend all of you to give one a whirl. I don't think they're going to be for everybody, but I feel that only a very small number of players will disapprove of the sheer quality of these instruments.

 

[zimbloth]

Just to support the original intention of this thread, I can honestly vouch for what Nick is saying. I don't think these are the finest guitars I've played, but they're without a doubt amazing. The tone is killer and woody, rather than plastic-y, and the feel is comfortable enough to use the old "practically plays itself" cliche.

I highly recommend all of you to give one a whirl. I don't think they're going to be for everybody, but I feel that only a very small number of players will disapprove of the sheer quality of these instruments.

Cool man. Curious, what years is yours made? I'd love to work out a trade for your Rautia so I can compare it to the new ones I'm getting in. I was told they changed things a bit in recent years.

 

[Adam Of Angels]

I think that's true. To be honest with you, I don't know what the year is (I could set you up with the serial number if you could find out from that somehow), but it looks like the new ones have recessed bridges where mine is actually flush-mount. Other than that, I really can't see any differences - perhaps one might be that they don't use pickup covers on the Rautia now days? That might be wrong, though.

 

[zimbloth]

I think that's true. To be honest with you, I don't know what the year is (I could set you up with the serial number if you could find out from that somehow), but it looks like the new ones have recessed bridges where mine is actually flush-mount. Other than that, I really can't see any differences - perhaps one might be that they don't use pickup covers on the Rautia now days? That might be wrong, though.

They use pickup covers on Rautias still. The headstock is different, and I heard there were some tweaks so I was just wondering if you knew. If you don't it's cool.

 

[zimbloth]

Just got a shipment in. Dear God, even fucking better than I remember. I'm at a loss for words...

Pics/vids to follow.

 

[mikernaut]

 

[zimbloth]

Too busy rocking out with these to post pics

It's interesting, the Voima and Aija have almost the exact same finish (sandblasted black, real dark) but the Aija has a more raw texture whereas the Voima has more of a smooth satin texture. I love all of these!

Quick thoughts (both positive and negative)

• Flawless playability on all of these
  
• DAMN are these LOUD acoustically! It's almost too loud. When I was noodling on the guitar while on the phone, which is usually a silent affair, it was almost like a quiet acoustic.
  
• These guitars are really warm and sustain (pardon the cliche) for days
  
• The Vasara has a D-Sonic with the bar facing the neck, WAY too muddy. I need to flip that around right away.
  
• The Duncans in the Voima sound good, and surprisingly the EMGs in the Aija sound incredible.
  
• I love these neck profiles. The most comfortable I've ever played. Nice D-shape. Not too thin, but not fat whatsoever. It was tough playing the PRS McCarty I received today after playing the Flaxwoods (though thats a nice guitar too)
  
• This is a thumbs down at me. I had stated in an earlier post that the trems could do dives/pull-ups as a Floyd. While the Schaller trems on these feel incredibly smooth and you DO have a lot of range, after playing these I think I overstated that. You can dive pretty far down but not as much as an OFR or Edge.

I love each and every one of these. I have three more coming in soon (Liekki and two Rautias) and I have a custom already in the works for myself

Mike, I'll get this shipped out to you right away! I'll take pics ASAP, my camera is at home. My iPhone camera would not do these justice.

 

[zimbloth]

Gentlemen, I present to you some sweet Flaxwood pics at last!