France best, U.S. worst in preventable deaths

[ohio_eric]

France best, U.S. worst in preventable deaths - Health care - MSNBC.com

France, Japan and Australia rated best and the United States worst in new rankings focusing on preventable deaths due to treatable conditions in 19 leading industrialized nations, researchers said on Tuesday.

If the U.S. health care system performed as well as those of those top three countries, there would be 101,000 fewer deaths in the United States per year, according to researchers writing in the journal Health Affairs.

Researchers Ellen Nolte and Martin McKee of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine tracked deaths that they deemed could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care, and ranked nations on how they did.

They called such deaths an important way to gauge the performance of a country’s health care system.

Nolte said the large number of Americans who lack any type of health insurance — about 47 million people in a country of about 300 million, according to U.S. government estimates — probably was a key factor in the poor showing of the United States compared to other industrialized nations in the study.

“I wouldn’t say it (the last-place ranking) is a condemnation, because I think health care in the U.S. is pretty good if you have access. But if you don’t, I think that’s the main problem, isn’t it?” Nolte said in a telephone interview.

n establishing their rankings, the researchers considered deaths before age 75 from numerous causes, including heart disease, stroke, certain cancers, diabetes, certain bacterial infections and complications of common surgical procedures.

Such deaths accounted for 23 percent of overall deaths in men and 32 percent of deaths in women, the researchers said.

France did best — with 64.8 deaths deemed preventable by timely and effective health care per 100,000 people, in the study period of 2002 and 2003. Japan had 71.2 and Australia had 71.3 such deaths per 100,000 people. The United States had 109.7 such deaths per 100,000 people, the researchers said.

After the top three, Spain was fourth best, followed in order by Italy, Canada, Norway, the Netherlands, Sweden, Greece, Austria, Germany, Finland, New Zealand, Denmark, Britain, Ireland and Portugal, with the United States last.

Capitalism + Medicine = epic phail.

 

[eaeolian]

Heh. This is, actually, a selling point for capitalistic medicine in some Republican circles. Not a publicized one, obviously...

No, I'm not making that up.

 

[technomancer]

Capitalism + Medicine = epic phail.

Our healthcare system needs serious reforms, but go take a look at where 99% of new disease treatments, medicines, and surgical advances are coming from.

Medicine - Capitalism = no advancement

You also need to take into account that Americans are on average more obese which skyrockets heart disease, stroke, and diabetes numbers.

 

[BigM555]

So Michael Moore's research may have actually been good on this one.

I'm stunned! [/sarcasim]

Our healthcare system needs serious reforms, but go take a look at where 99% of new disease treatments, medicines, and surgical advances are coming from.

Medicine - Capitalism = no advancement

You also need to take into account that Americans are on average more obese which skyrockets heart disease, stroke, and diabetes numbers.

I'm not so sure 99% of new medical technologies are coming from the US. In any case, I would argue that a lot of what is coming from the capitalistic health care model are not CURES but ongoing TREATMENTS (read; band-aids) so they can drag on and on to make the rest of the capitalists more money. Not to mention how many of these "treatments" in recent history have been shown to have other chronic effects.

Not trying to bust any balls I'm just not so sure that releasing tons of new pharmaceuticals can really be called advancement.

 

[ohio_eric]

Our healthcare system needs serious reforms, but go take a look at where 99% of new disease treatments, medicines, and surgical advances are coming from.

Medicine - Capitalism = no advancement

Most research is still coming from universities and not the big pharmaceutical companies. Sure they buy it up and sell it like crack. But real advancement would happen even if there wasn't the big greedy animal that is corporate medicine.

 

[BigM555]

I thought this was a hilarious synopsis of American Health Care.

Here in America we have a solid tradition of treating old age as a disease and recognizing death as the ultimate enemy. “We can! We must! We will fight death, to the uh, to the death!” Isn’t it amazing that roughly 80 percent of the money spent on all medical care occurs in the last few weeks of life?

“Congratulations Mrs. Jones, your 87-year-old husband has a new heart, one new lung and a couple of new kidneys. The procedure was difficult but 100 percent successful. We did a great job!”

“But my husband died!”

“Yeah, we’re truly sorry about that, we did everything we could think of. Anyway, that'll be $178,542 please. Will that be cash, check or charge?”

US life expectancy falls below that of most wealthy nations | Chiropractic News

 

[ukfswmart]

You also need to take into account that Americans are on average more obese which skyrockets heart disease, stroke, and diabetes numbers.

You say that as though it's a mitigating factor; why do you think they're more obese? If the average diet in the US was similar to that of France or Italy, a vast number of these preventable deaths would dealt with

All this, and the CEO of Krispy Kreme is sacked due to flagging profit margins...

 

[dpm]

Our healthcare system needs serious reforms, but go take a look at where 99% of new disease treatments, medicines, and surgical advances are coming from.

Medicine - Capitalism = no advancement

You also need to take into account that Americans are on average more obese which skyrockets heart disease, stroke, and diabetes numbers.

A huge amount of medical advancement is coming from outside the US then being bought and marketed by US companies.

 

[Leon]

You also need to take into account that Americans are on average more obese which skyrockets heart disease, stroke, and diabetes numbers.

the best offense is a good defense

 

[Jongpil Yun]

I'm not so sure 99% of new medical technologies are coming from the US. In any case, I would argue that a lot of what is coming from the capitalistic health care model are not CURES but ongoing TREATMENTS (read; band-aids) so they can drag on and on to make the rest of the capitalists more money. Not to mention how many of these "treatments" in recent history have been shown to have other chronic effects.

Not trying to bust any balls I'm just not so sure that releasing tons of new pharmaceuticals can really be called advancement.

Bullshit. Absolute and utter bullshit.

And BigM555, come on, you can't find a better place to look than a chiropractic website? Chiropractors are a group of quacks, frauds, and charlatans who are so numerous and publicly accepted for no good reason that they're bordering on being legitimate.

 

[lailer75]

good, move to france. can`t say you`ll be missed

 

[BigM555]

Bullshit. Absolute and utter bullshit.

And BigM555, come on, you can't find a better place to look than a chiropractic website? Chiropractors are a group of quacks, frauds, and charlatans who are so numerous and publicly accepted for no good reason that they're bordering on being legitimate.

Call bullshit if you like but it's my opinion based on the barrage of pharmaceutical advertisements I'm subjected to any time I turn on the idiot box.

Levitra, Prilosec, Bonica, Celebrex, Ciallis, Crestor, Valtrex, Nexium, Paxil, Plavix, just to name a few. There is pretty much a pill for anything that ails you isn't there?

Let's see now.....diseases that have been eradicated....

smallpox;1979


polio......oh, wait.....not just yet....but close, 2000 worldwide cases in 2006.

Diseases slotted for eradication/elimination by the CDC;

DRACUNCULIASIS (GUINEA WORM) - Yeah there's a popular one. Must be making the drug companies millions.

LYMPHATIC FILARIASIS - Pretty popular everywhere other than NA and Europe but again one that is not likely to impact the bastions of the pharma-industry I was referring to.

ONCHOCERCIASIS (RIVER BLINDNESS) - Yup, another real popular one.

CHAGAS' DISEASE - Pretty much a disease of the poor in South America. Nope, not much economic threat there.

HANSEN'S DISEASE (LEPROSY) - Ditto

Perhaps this is a better reference.
http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/t980520a.html

I'll be the first to agree that I'm not a doctor but I have a hard time swallowing the fact that a few more "big name" diseases haven't met with more success.

As far as your objections to the chiropractic profession, I tend to agree that there are some real quacks in the bunch. I used to whole-heartedly share your view until just a couple of years ago when I had a rather debilitating case of sciatica. My Doctor could do nothing but recommend pain relievers. I was mostly unable to move and was in pretty severe pain. Anyone who has suffered from it I'm sure will share these sentiments. With nothing really left to lose I chose to make an appointment with a Chiropractor. I had been severely restricted in movement for nearly two weeks and was not getting any better. Within two days of visiting my (that's right I now said "my") Chiropractor she had me walking almost normally. After a succession of visits adjustments were no longer necessary. I may have stopped treatment prematurely (in no small part due to my prior bias against chiropractics) and did have relapses. These were generally short because I quickly made appointments to go back. My own experience, despite my doubts, convinced me of their legitimacy. When applied to muscular-skeletal issues I think they have great value. Certainly more than pain pills.

Chiropractic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for the original 'reference', yes, I knew it was weak but I hadn't intended it to be anything more than a humorous link. Not really a reference.

BigM has been without a relapse of sciatica for over a year now......and will make an appointment at his Chiropractor if and when he does.

 

[technomancer]

You say that as though it's a mitigating factor; why do you think they're more obese? If the average diet in the US was similar to that of France or Italy, a vast number of these preventable deaths would dealt with

All this, and the CEO of Krispy Kreme is sacked due to flagging profit margins...

Actually I say this because it demonstrates there are also cultural factors at work that are simply not taken into account. The average populace of France for example seems to have more of a concern with personal fitness and well being than the average population of the US. This makes a HUGE difference in the results of the study, but it seems to have not been considered. The same can be said about workplace stress.

Most research is still coming from universities and not the big pharmaceutical companies. Sure they buy it up and sell it like crack. But real advancement would happen even if there wasn't the big greedy animal that is corporate medicine.

Knowing people that actually work in this field, from what I've seen you're simply not correct. The priority of researchers at commercial institutions is to develop something usable. The priority of University and non-commercial research labs is to get their grants renewed. One leads to actual treatments, one leads to small progress that always needs more work. Occasionally the two will overlap, but not very often.

 

[Groff]

Medicine - Capitalism = no advancement

We might not have free healthcare, but all the big "Miracle drug" companies and treatment centers are in the US.

It's kinda a win/lose situation.

 

[BigM555]

The priority of researchers at commercial institutions is to develop something usable SALABLE.

FTFY

 

[Jongpil Yun]

Call bullshit if you like but it's my opinion based on the barrage of pharmaceutical advertisements I'm subjected to any time I turn on the idiot box.

Levitra, Prilosec, Bonica, Celebrex, Ciallis, Crestor, Valtrex, Nexium, Paxil, Plavix, just to name a few. There is pretty much a pill for anything that ails you isn't there?

Let's see now.....diseases that have been eradicated....

smallpox;1979

polio......oh, wait.....not just yet....but close, 2000 worldwide cases in 2006.

We HAVE had new vaccines developed. The reason that only polio is close to being eliminated is that polio is a homogeneous disease, and the vaccine has a high enough success rate to actually work. We have vaccines for influenza, but you need a separate vaccine for each different strain in the shot, AND the success rate is around 75% in elderly patients. Add to that all the superstition surrounding the vaccines in the 3rd world ("If you let them give your son the shot his testicles will fall off") and you have an alarmingly high rate of people avoiding it out of fear.

Anyways, I'll work on the rest of it later, as it's almost time for my first class.