Game of Thrones

[Lorcan Ward]

^The show took a huge turn away from the source material thats its almost a completely different story for some characters.

It's easy to tie up characters and plots when the show has a precedent of unceremoniously bumping off characters with no regards for their plots being finished, just look at the big Cersei bombing. Now that they've upped the stakes much further, I could easily see them knocking off huge swathes of characters per episode. I won't be surprised if the Golden Company gets Dick Hallorann'd.

Oh no doubt but it still has to have a definitive ending that should mostly mirror George's planned ending.

 

[wankerness]

For all we know George's planned ending is as dramatically satisfying as the Sopranos finale or the end to Monty Python and the Holy Grail!

 

[Drew]

For all we know George's planned ending is as dramatically satisfying as the Sopranos finale or the end to Monty Python and the Holy Grail!

though, I have a feeling that however it ends in the show is NOT going to be the ending he eventually writes into the books. Too many differences.

 

[Emperor Guillotine]

I have a feeling that however it ends in the show is NOT going to be the ending he eventually writes into the books. Too many differences.

This depends. Ol' George might die before he even finishes the A Song of Ice And Fire series with how slowly he is writing and how he is instead choosing to focus on other books, editing, projects, etc.

Even though George had to give HBO the major plot points and details, I think he is going to use the TV audience response to Game of Thrones as a means to gauge his initially planned ending for everyone and everything in the books. Then, based on TV audience response, he is going to rewrite and adjust the planned ending to his book series. Maybe even write a whole new ending?

At this point, the ending to the TV series and the ending to the A Song of Ice And Fire book series cannot be the same. The TV series took a massive turn away from the source material fairly early on. Character arcs are vastly different. Events have been changed or erased entirely. The timeline has been shifted around or flat-out ignored. So yeah, at this point, I think it's safe to say that the ending to the TV series will not be the same as the ending to the book series.

If anyone here has really read the A Song of Ice And Fire series, and I mean REALLY read it in detail, it pretty much surmounts to: "war is hell". Characters die all the time for no reason at all, or even for stupid reasons. Some characters receive unexplained deaths from unexplained sources. Some just outright vanish. (Not sure if intentionally or due to George's writing and author error.) In this game, no one is safe, not even the most stereotypical literary hero, as shown to us by the character of Ned Stark and his fate early on in the series. Everyone dies. Everyone can die. And for all we know, the series could just end with everyone dying. That's the reality of war. And ol' George claims to have drawn on his experiences in war a lot while writing the series.

 

[MFB]

Started rewatching S1 over the past few days, boy is it slow as shit to start It's making me rethink my plan of watching the entire series before the final one premiers on April 18th

 

[Lorcan Ward]

This depends. Ol' George might die before he even finishes the A Song of Ice And Fire series with how slowly he is writing and how he is instead choosing to focus on other books, editing, projects, etc.

He completely squandered the 8-10 years he had to get the books wrapped up before the final season of the show. The last book was mostly done 14 years ago so its a fair assumption that we won't get to read his ending. I hope we at least get the next book since the sample chapters he's released are really good.

Episode lengths are up.

 

[Drew]

This depends. Ol' George might die before he even finishes the A Song of Ice And Fire series with how slowly he is writing and how he is instead choosing to focus on other books, editing, projects, etc.

Did you ever see the blog, "Finish the fucking book, George"? It was awesome for a while, basically a guy ranting about all the other things GRRM was doing other than writing ASOIAF - blogging about football and how much he hates the Pats, for one. But, then, as you might expect, the blog kinda started to fall off a bit. As you might imagine, it's kind of tough to keep it running when you've got absolutely no source material to work with.

The best I can realistically hope for is GRRM's estate pulls a Robert Johnson, and hires another competent writer who's a fan of the series to finish it for him. Brandon Sanderson's three books in WoT definitely had a different feel to them, and I liked Jordan's Mat more than Sanderson's... But Sanderson's Perrin was an improvement, and he fucking killed it on bringing the story to Johnson's intended close. I don't know how much of it was completed, drawn from Jordan's notes, or Sanderson's own work, but he did a great job with that series, and I'd love to see someone do the same to ASOIAF when GRRM eventually does die, leaving the books unfinished.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

This depends. Ol' George might die before he even finishes the A Song of Ice And Fire series with how slowly he is writing and how he is instead choosing to focus on other books, editing, projects, etc.

Even though George had to give HBO the major plot points and details, I think he is going to use the TV audience response to Game of Thrones as a means to gauge his initially planned ending for everyone and everything in the books. Then, based on TV audience response, he is going to rewrite and adjust the planned ending to his book series. Maybe even write a whole new ending?

At this point, the ending to the TV series and the ending to the A Song of Ice And Fire book series cannot be the same. The TV series took a massive turn away from the source material fairly early on. Character arcs are vastly different. Events have been changed or erased entirely. The timeline has been shifted around or flat-out ignored. So yeah, at this point, I think it's safe to say that the ending to the TV series will not be the same as the ending to the book series.

If anyone here has really read the A Song of Ice And Fire series, and I mean REALLY read it in detail, it pretty much surmounts to: "war is hell". Characters die all the time for no reason at all, or even for stupid reasons. Some characters receive unexplained deaths from unexplained sources. Some just outright vanish. (Not sure if intentionally or due to George's writing and author error.) In this game, no one is safe, not even the most stereotypical literary hero, as shown to us by the character of Ned Stark and his fate early on in the series. Everyone dies. Everyone can die. And for all we know, the series could just end with everyone dying. That's the reality of war. And ol' George claims to have drawn on his experiences in war a lot while writing the series.

george was never in the military or in a war. he was a conscientous objector during nam.

 

[Drew]

george was never in the military or in a war. he was a conscientous objector during nam.

Gives credence to the theory that the whole story is one Sam is writing down in the Citadel, no?

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Gives credence to the theory that the whole story is one Sam is writing down in the Citadel, no?

Can't say I've heard that particular theory before. I'm just repeating what George has written in his bio section on his website and on wikipedia.

 

[wankerness]

Started rewatching S1 over the past few days, boy is it slow as shit to start It's making me rethink my plan of watching the entire series before the final one premiers on April 18th

I rewatched the series before last season. It's shocking how good the writing/acting is in season 1 compared to...everything after. The real decline starts at the end of season 3 and steadily goes down every year. I still like the show, it's just so much more sloppily written from its original days. In terms of dialogue, events, etc.

 

[Drew]

Can't say I've heard that particular theory before. I'm just repeating what George has written in his bio section on his website and on wikipedia.

I mean, as far as fan theories go, it's not a super important one, save that if you're taking part in a death pool if it's true Sam is a name you'd want to avoid. But the gist is Sam, who's fascinated by books and the stories they contain, and who Jon has teased maybe one day he too will write an important book that scholars will study hundreds of years from now, is actually the author of ASOIAF and the story is his history of the events, as many years after the evens of the story he's setting them down in the Citadel.

As evidence, aside from the fact that it's actually fairly plausible, one thing that's often pointed out is the globes in the opening credit bear an eerie resemblance to the candelabras in the main hall of the citadel:

I'm not bothering to spoiler this because, again, it doesn't really change anything about the story.

 

[Emperor Guillotine]

Did you ever see the blog, "Finish the fucking book, George"? It was awesome for a while, basically a guy ranting about all the other things GRRM was doing other than writing ASOIAF - blogging about football and how much he hates the Pats, for one. But, then, as you might expect, the blog kinda started to fall off a bit. As you might imagine, it's kind of tough to keep it running when you've got absolutely no source material to work with.

Never heard about that. Honestly, I didn't get into GOT and ASOIAF until fairly recently (due to a specific person in my life), and I had no choice but to get into it hard.

Gives credence to the theory that the whole story is one Sam is writing down in the Citadel, no?

That's a good one.

 

[wankerness]

I'm rewatching season 8, this time on blu-ray instead of the HBO streaming, in preparation for the new season. The quality is a lot higher than I remember, especially relative to the previous few seasons. There are better and longer dialogue scenes. The fourth episode's big battle hyped me up almost as much as it did the first time, even knowing who came out alive at the end. It's brilliantly made.

There's still some garbage, like the massively overlong scene with grey worm and missandae, every time Euron's on the screen, or pretty much anything featuring Brann, but yeah. I'm more hyped for the last season. On to the last few episodes!

Cersei's haircut really bugs me.

 

[PunkBillCarson]

^So not only have you seen season 8 ahead of everyone else, you also have it on Blu-ray? Show me the ways...

 

[wankerness]

^So not only have you seen season 8 ahead of everyone else, you also have it on Blu-ray? Show me the ways...

That's what happens when I type numbers without using the number pad.

Speaking of the last few episodes, that one where they go to recover the wight is so bad. I'm not too keen on the season finale, either. The first part of the season is great, though.

 

[Drew]

Speaking of the last few episodes, that one where they go to recover the wight is so bad. I'm not too keen on the season finale, either. The first part of the season is great, though.

I do remember thinking that was a fairly improbable storyline - there were really a few points in the 7th season where, well, the production values were excellent, the dialogue was excellent, the acting was excellent, the effects were excellent... but the actually plot just felt like cheating. I've bitched previously about the whole Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger thing only working as a big reveal because the show keeps things hidden from the viewer to imply that something that isn't happening might be happening and the reveal is totally anticlimatic if you know what the characters know, and that Bran's omniscience is seriously shaky, considering Sam has to fill him in on certain details about Jon that somehow he's seen all this other stuff, but missed this one point that, lo and behold, really matters.

It's like, the call-it-day-to-day writing, how characters interact with each other and whatnot, is great... But some of the overall structural stuff got pretty shaky in Season 7. Going beyond the wall to retrieve a wight to show it to Cersai to get her to agree to a truce is way up there, considering a self-interested Cersai should be all about her enemies turning to stop fighting her and go battle some unknown threat up beyond the wall, and shouldn't need much convincing to let them go get killed fighting something else so she doesn't have to have her own army do it. Which is a pity, because if you ignore the fact there's no reasonable reason for that band to go beyond the wall, it makes for some pretty awesome viewing.

 

[Xaios]

The best I can realistically hope for is GRRM's estate pulls a Robert Johnson

I too was disappointed when Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil at the crossroads to become a blues legend instead of finishing the Wheel of Time series.

 

[Drew]

I too was disappointed when Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil at the crossroads to become a blues legend instead of finishing the Wheel of Time series.

Oops.

FWIW I thought Sanderson did a reasonably good job finishing that series.

 

[Xaios]

I've had "The Way of Kings" sitting on my shelf for years now, I should probably read it. First though, I also have to read The Color of Magic and The Black Company.

It is truly difficult to find time to do all this shit nowadays.