George Floyd...

[ryanougrad]

no i can't.

I know we don't know each other, I'm sure you're angry. I just want to say this approach doesn't help matters. People that are on the fence will turn their backs on change if attitudes like this persist.

 

[eggy in a bready]

I know we don't know each other, I'm sure you're angry. I just want to say this approach doesn't help matters. People that are on the fence will turn their backs on change if attitudes like this persist.

are you an american?

 

[ryanougrad]

are you an american?

Yes. I live abroad now. Have for 2 years if it matters.

 

[c7spheres]

no there isn't.


no i can't.

- The huge world of difference between a peacful protest and a passive agressive protest is quite large. One is peaceful and one is aggressive. If you don't know the difference between peace and aggression then I'd say you're trying to get a rise from people.

- So you label yourself racist against white's then. I'm sorry about that. I hope one day you'll figure it out that not all whites are the same and most aren't racists. I still have hope for you and don't hate you. Love is the answer.

 

[Randy]

I know we don't know each other, I'm sure you're angry. I just want to say this approach doesn't help matters. People that are on the fence will turn their backs on change if attitudes like this persist.

In your opinion. I spoke to two adamant anti-violence pacifists today that said 'enough is enough' and they're content to watch the cities burn. Some minds are changing. And besides, it's not meant to be an intellectual appeals, it's meant to be menacing.

 

[Randy]

- So you label yourself racist against white's then. I'm sorry about that. I hope one day you'll figure it out that not all whites are the same and most aren't racists. I still have hope for you and don't hate you. Love is the answer.

So you're arguing institutional racism doesn't exist and black-on-white racism has the same history in this country as white-on-black racism?

 

[ryanougrad]

In your opinion. I spoke to two adamant anti-violence pacifists today that said 'enough is enough' and they're content to watch the cities burn. Some minds are changing. And besides, it's not meant to be an intellectual appeals, it's meant to be menacing.

I don't know if you read the response I was responding to? I was responding to lumping all whites into a category.

If you read my post before that, I'm all for escalation. See my post on page 10.

 

[Randy]

So you're arguing institutional racism doesn't exist and black-on-white racism has the same history in this country as white-on-black racism?

'Both-sidesism' benefits the parties currently at the top of the power structure. Anybody got a video of a black cop standing on the neck of a white man until dead while three other guys also hold him to the ground, or nah?

 

[eggy in a bready]

- The huge world of difference between a peacful protest and a passive agressive protest is quite large. One is peaceful and one is aggressive. If you don't know the difference between peace and aggression then I'd say you're trying to get a rise from people.

it is exceptionally disturbing that you consider a black man kneeling silently for self-dermination to be aggressive. it also reinforces my point that white people find any form of black protest to be inherently offensive, no matter how passive. wake up

 

[Randy]

I don't know if you read the response I was responding to? I was responding to lumping all whites into a category.

If you read my post before that, I'm all for escalation. See my post on page 10.

I re-read for context. The comment he made was flippant, potentially unfair if you expand it logically beyond that statement, yes. But to the overarching frustrations, there is institutional white privledge in this country and when it manifests itself as white men killing black men to no consequence, it's not unreasonable to point out that white people get that benefit. Likewise, watering down the arguments and marginalizing POC's right to be outraged or seek change is an active endorsement of allowing this to go on.

Based on the number of finger-waggers that've come out of the woodwork in this thread, I think his frustration is ENTIRELY valid. YMMV

 

[ryanougrad]

I re-read for context. The comment he made was flippant, potentially unfair if you expand it logically beyond that statement, yes. But to the overarching frustrations, there is institutional white privledge in this country and when it manifests itself as white men killing black men to no consequence, it's not unreasonable to point out that white people get that benefit. Likewise, watering down the arguments and marginalizing POC's right to be outraged or seek change is an active endorsement of allowing this to go on.

Based on the number of finger-waggers that've come out of the woodwork in this thread, I think his frustration is ENTIRELLY valid. YMMV

I agree with you. Frustration is valid, but valid emotions and feelings aren't always productive.

 

[Randy]

I don't think anybody that's supportive of the protests or even the riots are suggesting that should go on indefinitely. There's a time and place for everything, and now is the exact right time for outrage.

If society can't wrap their head around that or are going to command that protesting not inconvenience the same power base it seeks to shake loose, they prove the point of the rioters ten fold.

 

[c7spheres]

it is exceptionally disturbing that you consider a black man kneeling silently for self-dermination to be aggressive. it also reinforces my point that white people find any form of black protest to be inherently offensive, no matter how passive. wake up

I don't find the kneeling part or the message he stands for aggressive at all. In fact I mostly agree with it. What it is NOT, is peaceful. It is passive-aggressive behavior because of the methods used. The NFL doesn't owe it to him to lose millions of dollars, to give them their time, to let him use their name, to tarnish it, and their platform, and branding etc. By putting the NFL in that position is an aggressive move. He basically hijacked money and reputation from the NFL. He bit the hand that feeds him and by the NFL not wanting involvment in that does not make them a racist organization.

So you're arguing institutional racism doesn't exist and black-on-white racism has the same history in this country as white-on-black racism?

- No. I'm not arguing that at all. Why would you suggest that?

 

[eggy in a bready]

re: all white people

yes, i might be slightly hyperbolic about that (maybe). but a vast majority of whites around the world are not empathetic to POC struggles. many are unconsciously causing harm, even though they claim to be allies. these white rioters who are looting and inciting violence despite pleas from black protesters, for instance... doing their part to shape the media narrative and flip this whole protest onto the heads of black folk.

 

[eggy in a bready]

I don't find the kneeling part or the message he stands for aggressive at all. In fact I mostly agree with it. What it is NOT, is peaceful. It is passive-aggressive behavior because of the methods used. The NFL doesn't owe it to him to lose millions of dollars, to give them their time, to let him use their name, to tarnish it, and their platform, and branding etc. By putting the NFL in that position is an aggressive move. He basically hijacked money and reputation from the NFL. He bit the hand that feeds him and by the NFL not wanting involvment in that does not make them a racist organization.

so, an organization who's players are made up of roughly 70% black heritage doesn't think it should involve itself with matters of black self-determination?

sounds like a fucking slave trade to me.

 

[Randy]

- No. I'm not arguing that at all. Why would you suggest that?

It's implied. If you think Kaepernick's protests were too much, than you lessen the significance of the matter at hand. Accusing a black person of racism as some kind of a co-equal infringement on you frames exactly that.

How would you deal with 500 years of oppression? Give an example what's an effective and appropriate response to being enslaved, tortured and killed by your oppressor for all of your ancestry, and having the threat that you'll be next hanging over your head every day. What's the right way of agitating against that?

 

[Vairocarnal]

The police are supposed to be skilled in de-escalation, so skilled in fact that they are supposed to inherently justify and even necessitate a wider margin of forgivable error due to the considerably larger amount of extraneously dangerous circumstances the police endure.
I totally agree that police generally act against the best interests of american individuals and societiy at large. Colorado is notoriously lethal to the handicapped, disabled , and more specifically Epileptics. I can't find the articles but I remember that at least two epileptic people of color have died while in police custody due to excessively rough treatment or medical neglect.

I barely survived my encounter. I had a seizure on a public street near downtown Denver. Some rando called 911. A paramedic got my saliva on their skin and decided to charge me with "attempted murder of a police officer with a deadly weapon", a second degree felony. Due to all of the responders being "trained witnesses" it ended up being their word against mine on a professional level. That said, they didn't even try to collect any evidence of the incident and they falsified multiple reports. All are still on active duty and none were so much as written up. Not even a picture of my supposed saliva on their sub-human skin was taken. They didn't even collect a sample to verify that it was my spit. My public defender literally abandoned the case. This is commonplace here. If you were to ask a local neurologist about how the police treat the disabled, chances are they either have a patient that has been attacked by police or they know a colleague, an associate, or an acquaintence that does.

Seems like the rule of law is a joke to authority and anybody that gets trampled underfoot is the punchline.

If police refuse to honor their oaths that they have chosen to take, then they are by definition traitors to their nation and should be treated accordingly. Period.

That said, I believe in actual justice that involves trying people for their crimes. I don't condone the point blank, cold-murder of police but self defense is another story. To me, If someone (no matter their profession) is trying to kill or rape you, or someone you care about, that situation dictates self defense but to murder an officer unprovoked is simply cowardly, to say the least.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/09/06/aurora-police-excessive-force-andre-williams/amp/

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/06/27/epileptic-man-charged-assault-spitting/amp/

 

[DiezelMonster]

'Both-sidesism' benefits the parties currently at the top of the power structure. Anybody got a video of a black cop standing on the neck of a white man until dead while three other guys also hold him to the ground, or nah?

I don't have that video. But I'd LOVE to see it.

 

[eggy in a bready]

The police are supposed to be skilled in de-escalation, so skilled in fact that they are supposed to inherently justify and even necessitate a wider margin of forgivable error due to the considerably larger amount of extraneously dangerous circumstances the police endure.
I totally agree that police generally act against the best interests of american individuals and societiy at large. Colorado is notoriously lethal to the handicapped, disabled , and more specifically Epileptics. I can't find the articles but I remember that at least two epileptic people of color have died while in police custody due to excessively rough treatment or medical neglect.

I barely survived my encounter. I had a seizure on a public street near downtown Denver. Some rando called 911. A paramedic got my saliva on their skin and decided to charge me with "attempted murder of a police officer with a deadly weapon", a second degree felony. Due to all of the responders being "trained witnesses" it ended up being their word against mine on a professional level. That said, they didn't even try to collect any evidence of the incident and they falsified multiple reports. All are still on active duty and none were so much as written up. Not even a picture of my supposed saliva on their sub-human skin was taken. They didn't even collect a sample to verify that it was my spit. My public defender literally abandoned the case. This is commonplace here. If you were to ask a local neurologist about how the police treat the disabled, chances are they either have a patient that has been attacked by police or they know a colleague, an associate, or an acquaintence that does.

Seems like the rule of law is a joke to authority and anybody that gets trampled underfoot is the punchline.

If police refuse to honor their oaths that they have chosen to take, then they are by definition traitors to their nation and should be treated accordingly. Period.

That said, I believe in actual justice that involves trying people for their crimes. I don't condone the point blank, cold-murder of police but self defense is another story. To me, If someone (no matter their profession) is trying to kill or rape you, or someone you care about, that situation dictates self defense but to murder an officer unprovoked is simply cowardly, to say the least.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/09/06/aurora-police-excessive-force-andre-williams/amp/

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/06/27/epileptic-man-charged-assault-spitting/amp/

holy shit dude, unreal. i'm sorry that happened to you.

 

[DiezelMonster]

Deleted for anger.