Gibson fails again.

[Hyacinth]

I know it's en vogue for people on this forum (considering the smilies) to use gay slurs as "it ain't no thang" but I want to go on record saying it offends me.

I'm not a dick who neg reps, but I couldn't let that one go. Usually I do, couldn't this time.

I'm sorry I offended you. I supposed it's just a habit that carried over from real life, because in my group of friends we say it without a second thought because we all know that we're not talking about actual gay people. This is going to sound like an excuse, but I have friends and even family members that are gay, and I have no problem with homosexuality. From now on, I'll refrain from using such language in a public forum. It just occurred to me that I actually don't say it in public because it might offend people For some reason I didn't think about that when I posted the original comment. Anyway, sorry bro, won't happen again!

 

[Andromalia]

^^^ Let's assume that I wrote a comprehensive reply about the (sometimes arrogant) elitism of outsider cultures and the futility of trying to assert objective standards in evaluating art and just move on, 'kay?

Nope, I'm out of interesting reads, get to work now.

 

[Dopey Trout]

^^^ Let's assume that I wrote a comprehensive reply about the (sometimes arrogant) elitism of outsider cultures and the futility of trying to assert objective standards in evaluating art and just move on, 'kay?

Exactly what I would've written, but I probably would've used more swears, being Scottish and all

 

[pushpull7]

I'm sorry I offended you. I supposed it's just a habit that carried over from real life, because in my group of friends we say it without a second thought because we all know that we're not talking about actual gay people. This is going to sound like an excuse, but I have friends and even family members that are gay, and I have no problem with homosexuality. From now on, I'll refrain from using such language in a public forum. It just occurred to me that I actually don't say it in public because it might offend people For some reason I didn't think about that when I posted the original comment. Anyway, sorry bro, won't happen again!

It's all good. I just get a bit miffed at how people use that word and think it's no big. I prolly shouldn't have said anything.

 

[Hyacinth]

It's all good. I just get a bit miffed at how people use that word and think it's no big. I prolly shouldn't have said anything.

No way man, I'm glad you said something. It reminded me of the weight that word carries. I should probably cut it out of my vocabulary.

 

[Valnob]

here's another one (for zakk wylde)

 

[purpledc]

^^^ Let's assume that I wrote a comprehensive reply about the (sometimes arrogant) elitism of outsider cultures and the futility of trying to assert objective standards in evaluating art and just move on, 'kay?

Sorry if I offended you. But with all due respect, human beings have been creating standards and evaluating the validity and merit of art since it was art. Our whole society is achievement based and those achievements are graded and classified. Whether it be your grades on a school essay, an athletes placement in the Olympics or yes, even the grading and rating of art in movies, books and music. Every single one of those grades and classifications are given to them by someone with an opinion of their performance. Some are more qualified than others to give their opinion. So I ask what is more futile, expressing your opinion for the sake of discussion even if it isn't a positive opinion? Or trying to tell somoene that expressing their opinion is futile because they dont share it?

 

[InAbsentia_]

I have to admit while I dont agree with your choice of words, but I do agree with not caring for FFDP. Some of it could be viewed as jealousy. And in a way I am. Music IMHO for the most part (at least popular) music is stagnating as of late. To me it would seem popular music lacks any depth, character and/or creativity. No risks are being taken. No new ground be broken. Nothing comes on the radio in any great frequency that moves me like music did in years past. It seems music is now a reflection of a bland, self absorbed, social media dependent lives so many people live today.

Even with lyrics of many bands have been dumbed down so much that they really sound like Dr. Seuss. Simple rhymes and very simple themes seem to run rampant in popular music. The sadest part is that this music being popular is a reflection of how the majority of people intake such arts. Its sad really that that is how "deep" the majority of people are. Maybe I'm reading into it too much. Some would argue "Man its just fun heavy music calm down".

The jealousy comes into play because I know that there are so many bands that make superior music in every respect that will NEVER get the same recognition, exposure and subsequent success as a band like FFDP and yeah, when I hear that singer struggling to keep pitch I do get jealous that he is where he is at and I am where I am. But I dont get mad at him. It simply makes me lose a little bit more faith in the people that put him there. Sure, its just my opinion and opinions can vary greatly. But I dont think its an opinion that FFPD is simple music written in a simple way for simple minded people. I dont mind straight forward lyrics but I cant stand when it is so simple that it sounds like the singer is reading a childrens book. I also can stand when the words are poorly chosen to where it seems they are trying to cram too many words into a given bar of music because it simply doesnt fit. Both of these things seem to be very apparent in their music. Rant off.

The reason you feel this way is because you seem to believe that talent and/or skill should define how popular you are. The centuries have taught us this is very often not the case. It's mainly how you market yourself. If you write songs in your bedroom and distribute your CD on a street corner it doesn't matter if you're Beethoven reincarnated, you will not be known and you will not sell.

 

[Electric Wizard]

Some are more qualified than others to give their opinion.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Whether it be your grades on a school essay, an athletes placement in the Olympics or yes, even the grading and rating of art in movies, books and music. Every single one of those grades and classifications are given to them by someone with an opinion of their performance.

Erm... No.

Generally, an athlete's placement in the Olympics is based on his performance of a specific task, and that performance is judged on actual measurable physical outcomes (time, distance, speed, accuracy), unless you only meant the artistic events like figure skating or the floor routine, but the results of those tend to be hotly debated and some even think they shouldn't be in the Olympics at all.

With essays, it depends entirely on the sort of essay being written. There will obviously be some bias from the teacher, but there will still be set guidelines the essay is supposed to adhere to (and those guidelines will change from essay to essay), and its grade is often based on a rubric provided to the students before writing it.

Music is more similar to essays in that regard, in that one can only really "judge" it either wholly subjectively, or partially subjectively according to an arbitrary rubric provided by the judge(es). What qualifies as a great Crossover Hardcore album isn't going to be considered a great New Age Ambient record. If you're choosing to judge ALL music based on whatever standard (technicality, here on SSO; record sales, on the pop charts), that's imposing objective standards where they need not always be, particularly when considering a medium as subjective as music.

Some are more qualified than others to give their opinion.

Some are certainly more qualified to give their opinions on certain aspects of music, or a certain subset or genre, sure. But when it gets into the realm of one person feeling more qualified to judge ALL music according to the narrow quality rubric he applies to music he likes, that's when the whole thing goes off the rails, and you get, as Celticelk put it, the "(sometimes arrogant) elitism of outsider cultures and the futility of trying to assert objective standards in evaluating art."

That was kinda rambly, but it made sense in my head .

 

[Kaappari]

here's another one (for zakk wylde)

I like it and I'm ashamed

 

[Don Vito]

It's a Little Debbie zebracake.

 

[dedsouth333]

It certainly fixes the whole "I can't play a V sitting down" problem

 

[purpledc]

Erm... No.

Generally, an athlete's placement in the Olympics is based on his performance of a specific task, and that performance is judged on actual measurable physical outcomes (time, distance, speed, accuracy), unless you only meant the artistic events like figure skating or the floor routine, but the results of those tend to be hotly debated and some even think they shouldn't be in the Olympics at all.

With essays, it depends entirely on the sort of essay being written. There will obviously be some bias from the teacher, but there will still be set guidelines the essay is supposed to adhere to (and those guidelines will change from essay to essay), and its grade is often based on a rubric provided to the students before writing it.

Music is more similar to essays in that regard, in that one can only really "judge" it either wholly subjectively, or partially subjectively according to an arbitrary rubric provided by the judge(es). What qualifies as a great Crossover Hardcore album isn't going to be considered a great New Age Ambient record. If you're choosing to judge ALL music based on whatever standard (technicality, here on SSO; record sales, on the pop charts), that's imposing objective standards where they need not always be, particularly when considering a medium as subjective as music.



Some are certainly more qualified to give their opinions on certain aspects of music, or a certain subset or genre, sure. But when it gets into the realm of one person feeling more qualified to judge ALL music according to the narrow quality rubric he applies to music he likes, that's when the whole thing goes off the rails, and you get, as Celticelk put it, the "(sometimes arrogant) elitism of outsider cultures and the futility of trying to assert objective standards in evaluating art."

That was kinda rambly, but it made sense in my head .

Im sorry but I think your splitting hairs. My only failure I feel is I spoke in what appears to be absolution. Poor choice in rushed words. I should have stated that in each of those categories lies the potential for opinion to effect the outcome and subsequent grading and/or ranking of someones performance. Your ability to name figure skating and teacher influences, while not being every example of situations that would support my position it certainly shows that you knew what i was getting at and I fear your using a technicality of my poor wording to lend superiority to your own opinion.

And again in the subject of essays and music I wasnt trying to speak in absolution that all grades and awarded achievements will be opinion based but rather point out that there are many instances where it can be true and it is. I do think its worth mentioning though that I have never asserted my qualifications or lack thereof to judge music. Im not saying I am qualified nor unqualified. I was never debating this. I was simply stating that I have the right to VOICE that opinion regardless of those qualifications or lack thereof.

There seems to be many who would like to shush any person who expresses a negative opinion no matter how politely they attempt to express it. I however dont think conversations should only consist of nothing but pillow fluffing and reach a rounds. If somone doesnt like something they should be able to state it and why as long as a certain tact and respect are utilized when doing so. Of course there is the saying that if you dont have anything nice to say then say nothing at all, I dont think that saying was coined with its application to a "discussion" forum in mind. And I simply find it amazing how quick people are to come to the defense of a band or single person when a negative opinions is expressed. Especially when the band or person being discussed is well known for their penchant for expressing their own negative views and opinions. Seems rather biased.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

Ok so not only did they make the new sig for one of the Five Finger Deathpunch guys. Not only did they put this ridiculous paintjob on it, but look at the selector switch. Instead of making an Explorer without a pickguard with a rear route for the switch. They thought it would be a good idea to use $2 worth of cheap underhood auto wire covering to cover the wires in an open route and what looks like a jack plate to mount the toggle switch. Most ghetto thing I have ever seen. For shame Gibson, for shame.

Yeah, too bad this schmuck probably wanted it to look like that. oke:

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Yeah, too bad this schmuck probably wanted it to look like that. oke:

Pretty much. He's been using a custom Explorer exactly like his sig for years now.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Im sorry but I think your splitting hairs. My only failure I feel is I spoke in what appears to be absolution. Poor choice in rushed words. I should have stated that in each of those categories lies the potential for opinion to effect the outcome and subsequent grading and/or ranking of someones performance. Your ability to name figure skating and teacher influences, while not being every example of situations that would support my position it certainly shows that you knew what i was getting at and I fear your using a technicality of my poor wording to lend superiority to your own opinion.

If splitting hairs is pointing out how your argument was flawed, then sure, that's exactly what I was doing. Yes, you should have said those things, but you didn't. Don't pretend that I'm just using your words against you and it's all some forced false "misunderstanding" on my part, when at least two other people on this page found fault in what you've been saying and how you've said it.

And again in the subject of essays and music I wasnt trying to speak in absolution that all grades and awarded achievements will be opinion based but rather point out that there are many instances where it can be true and it is. I do think its worth mentioning though that I have never asserted my qualifications or lack thereof to judge music. Im not saying I am qualified nor unqualified. I was never debating this. I was simply stating that I have the right to VOICE that opinion regardless of those qualifications or lack thereof.

Nobody here is trying to stop anyone from voicing their opinions, we're bothered at the insinuation that some people's opinions are somehow better than others.

We're bothered at people LITERALLY saying something that clearly is an opinion, isn't:

But I dont think its an opinion that FFPD is simple music written in a simple way for simple minded people.

We're bothered at the outsider elitism some people show when expressing their opinions:

The sadest part is that this music being popular is a reflection of how the majority of people intake such arts. Its sad really that that is how "deep" the majority of people are.

Do you see how that's different from just expressing a negative opinion of a band? Do you see how you come off when you say things like that?

There seems to be many who would like to shush any person who expresses a negative opinion no matter how politely they attempt to express it. I however dont think conversations should only consist of nothing but pillow fluffing and reach a rounds. If somone doesnt like something they should be able to state it and why as long as a certain tact and respect are utilized when doing so. Of course there is the saying that if you dont have anything nice to say then say nothing at all, I dont think that saying was coined with its application to a "discussion" forum in mind. And I simply find it amazing how quick people are to come to the defense of a band or single person when a negative opinions is expressed. Especially when the band or person being discussed is well known for their penchant for expressing their own negative views and opinions. Seems rather biased.

Nobody is "shushing" anybody. You weren't just giving a negative opinion of a band, you were slagging an entire demographic for liking something you don't like. I think FFDP is overrated and terrible too, but I'm not going to come in here and smirk down at the ignorant masses from atop my high horse about it. Just as you're free to say whatever you want in here, we're free to hop on and call a spade a spade, man.

 

[Leuka]

here's another one (for zakk wylde)

 

[purpledc]

If splitting hairs is pointing out how your argument was flawed, then sure, that's exactly what I was doing. Yes, you should have said those things, but you didn't. Don't pretend that I'm just using your words against you and it's all some forced false "misunderstanding" on my part, when at least two other people on this page found fault in what you've been saying and how you've said it.



Nobody here is trying to stop anyone from voicing their opinions, we're bothered at the insinuation that some people's opinions are somehow better than others.

We're bothered at people LITERALLY saying something that clearly is an opinion, isn't:



We're bothered at the outsider elitism some people show when expressing their opinions:



Do you see how that's different from just expressing a negative opinion of a band? Do you see how you come off when you say things like that?



Nobody is "shushing" anybody. You weren't just giving a negative opinion of a band, you were slagging an entire demographic for liking something you don't like. I think FFDP is overrated and terrible too, but I'm not going to come in here and smirk down at the ignorant masses from atop my high horse about it. Just as you're free to say whatever you want in here, we're free to hop on and call a spade a spade, man.

All right, we both said our piece and its probably best for both of us if we dont have another page dedicated to why neither one of us will change each others mind. We could go on for days. Agreeing to disagree is probably the best option at this point. Though I have to laugh at your blunt use of the word "terrible" to describe FFDP. That is rather harsh for someone advocating for a more polite way of expressing a dislike for their music. Regardless, good day to you and see you on the forum.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

All right, we both said our piece and its probably best for both of us if we dont have another page dedicated to why neither one of us will change each others mind. We could go on for days. Agreeing to disagree is probably the best option at this point. Though I have to laugh at your blunt use of the word "terrible" to describe FFDP. That is rather harsh for someone advocating for a more polite way of expressing a dislike for their music. Regardless, good day to you and see you on the forum.

Not once here have I been advocating expressing dislike for aband more politely, but the fact that you THINK that's the point I've been arguing is indeed a good sign that this is going nowhere, and we should leave this thread to the people who just want to talk about how fugly the guitar is .