God, Aliens and Astronauts

[flint757]

God is Spiritual. I have found it VERY difficult to understand spiritual things. I doubt science will ever prove the existence of God, because science only deals with things of a physical nature (meaning not spiritual).

Yeah I know. Which leads me to my problem, as without evidence I cannot believe absolutely in a God.

Biggest reason being how many religions there are, the numerous division within these religions, ALL things about God being written or interpreted by men and women, the huge power grab by the church and kings over the centuries, and the spread of religion itself is by humans not God as well. That doesn't even take into account how the stories are originally told in one language and then have been translated countless times since (and witnessed by taking any foreign language class things rarely translate perfectly) or how many of the stories are retold years after they happened or passed down verbally (telephone game). Then we have the fact that we have diagnosed people today with many mental disorders. Who's to say these 'prophets' aren't schizophrenic's?

Note, none of that disproves the existence of God (or proves it either), but it does make it a lot harder for one to believe in God or what 'word' someone should be following if they choose to believe too. I fully recognize that it is possible and that it is next to impossible to prove or disprove completely, but the human element makes everything written, historically, up for debate.

 

[jl-austin]

The purpose of discussing things people disagree on, in a perfect world, is not to convince the other party that they are wrong. It should be two people with opposing ideas mutually seeking the truth through an examination of counter-arguments and all available evidence. If someone refutes one of your arguments, and you internally discover another aspect of your opinion you hadn't fully considered or even realized, that person just expanded your awareness of the topic. Be grateful, not hateful.

I get the feeling that certain people who are in these discussions are more intelligent than I am (thank goodness for spellcheck, haha!).

As a Christian I believe it is my job to try to spread the truth where ever I can. The original post asked for opinions. I am not going to pass up that opportunity, even if I come across as a babbling idiot.

I seen a tree in a parking lot once, seeds were all over the pavement. The tree obviously did not care that it's seeds had no hope of sprouting, its job was to drop the seeds and let nature do the rest. That is how I feel about Christianity, spread the word no matter what, and let God deal with the rest.

I am sorry if I came across as a know it all.

 

[The Reverend]

I get the feeling that certain people who are in these discussions are more intelligent than I am (thank goodness for spellcheck, haha!).

As a Christian I believe it is my job to try to spread the truth where ever I can. The original post asked for opinions. I am not going to pass up that opportunity, even if I come across as a babbling idiot.

I seen a tree in a parking lot once, seeds were all over the pavement. The tree obviously did not care that it's seeds had no hope of sprouting, its job was to drop the seeds and let nature do the rest. That is how I feel about Christianity, spread the word no matter what, and let God deal with the rest.

I am sorry if I came across as a know it all.

You're not the only one who feels that way. But like the post I quoted, of myself, no less, people thinking they have to share their opinion because of a divine mandate are behind a lot of horrible events in the history of the world. In fact, turn on the news, right now, and you'll likely see a story or two about people 'spreading' their beliefs in less genteel ways than yours.

 

[jl-austin]

Biggest reason being how many religions there are, the numerous division within these religions, ALL things about God being written or interpreted by men and women, the huge power grab by the church and kings over the centuries, and the spread of religion itself is by humans not God as well.

Unfortunately everyone knows this all to well, the unbeliever and the believer. There are Churches out there for money, there are Churches out there for the power. One religion will say the other isn't going to Heaven, and so on. It makes it hard because people are VERY turned off by that sort of thing. All I can say is, if you ever come to the point where you believe in God, try to please God, and not the Church. The first and greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart and soul. I realize you aren't at that point, but I hope those words stick with you!

That doesn't even take into account how the stories are originally told in one language and then have been translated countless times since (and witnessed by taking any foreign language class things rarely translate perfectly) or how many of the stories are retold years after they happened or passed down verbally (telephone game).

Yep, I totally see where you are coming from. When I read the first few passages in Genesis I feel I am not getting the complete story. However, as I studied the Bible and read it more, I started to realize that the Bible is really about one man, Jesus Christ. The whole Bible is centered around him, from the old testament telling about his descendants and prophecies about him, to the new testament telling about the salvation he has offered us. I do believe it is truth, I just wonder if for example Genesis is really a complete story, I mean the first few chapters covers 2000 years or so, It stands to reason that some things were left out. Does that mean it is inaccurate, my opinion is no it is not inaccurate, it is just telling us what we need to know, namely about Jesus.

 

[Jakke]

UHowever, as I studied the Bible and read it more, I started to realize that the Bible is really about one man, Jesus Christ.

I do believe the jews would disagree with you there

 

[jl-austin]

You're not the only one who feels that way. But like the post I quoted, of myself, no less, people thinking they have to share their opinion because of a divine mandate are behind a lot of horrible events in the history of the world. In fact, turn on the news, right now, and you'll likely see a story or two about people 'spreading' their beliefs in less genteel ways than yours.

Three things, Love God with all your heart, love others more than yourself, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

If people would accept these 3 things, the world would be a VERY peaceful place.

 

[jl-austin]

I do believe the jews would disagree with you there

Well, yes and no. They believe their Christ is still coming. They do not accept Jesus as their savior (yet, apparently from the way I read it, the time will come when they will believe however).

So they do not believe the New Testament, I think their Torah is similar to the old testament of the Bible.

 

[flint757]

Three things, Love God with all your heart, love others more than yourself, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

If people would accept these 3 things, the world would be a VERY peaceful place.

To be perfectly fair the world would be just as good of a place if people only did the 2nd and 3rd.

I'd say, as for Christian values go, live life in moderation is probably more important than the first. My grandfather 'loved' others so much more than himself that he allowed his family to live in poverty and hunger for most of my families childhood (stopped himself from succeeding in life and gave away practically everything).

 

[jl-austin]

I'd say, as for Christian values go, live life in moderation is probably more important than the first. My grandfather 'loved' others so much more than himself that he allowed his family to live in poverty and hunger for most of my families childhood (stopped himself from succeeding in life and gave away practically everything).

Often times when a Christian does good, they are often kicked in the face for it. It is actually the opposite of what I would expect. We hope that we are rewarded in Heaven for the good we do here. How about you? Do you feel if there is a Heaven, do you feel your Grandfather is rewarded for helping others?

 

[flint757]

My main point was he went too far. If you have 7 kids and a job that barely makes the bills you don't give away your children's food. He loved others more than himself a little too much, but he also felt he had a lot to repent for from Vietnam. Given the affect on his children, his desire to follow that particular rule and reap his reward in heaven (or gain forgiveness) was very selfish given the state of his family by doing so.

I believe helping others should only be done if it can be done without causing harm to others, otherwise on the whole it had no positive change. If it harms yourself so be it, but I still feel like people should make sure they are okay before concerning themselves with others. As an example, Bill Gates donates far more money than my Grandfather ever can and does so without causing any distress. There is a point when you have to be smart and not just generous.

 

[facepalm66]

I wonder, what is a 'god' to you? How do you imagine him? WHere is this so called god?
God is everything in nothing, and nothing in everything?
God is in every life form?

I assume our intelligence is high enough to actually understand, energy does not come from anywhere and does not disappear into a some sort of a void.
So everything is 'made of energy' if you know what I mean.
So basically, how could someone (god) create SOMETHING out of nothing?
I believe he had to come up from somewhere himself? Well even he DID, that means there was something before him, that has led to his creation.
And why would anyone have that power to controll everything? This is impossible (which is the fact, that god is a boolshit theory), since everything comes to an end. Not talking about ants and ducks.. let's talk about our source, which would be our sun. SUN DIES. It collapses, sooner or later. So does every other star, planet etc. Everything has it's cycle. So probably god should die too? Or he invented absolutely everything, some sort of micro infinity? That is out of limits for the space itself, which sorta denies the posibility of being an 'consistency of nothing that is capable of everything'.
Plus, doing something requires psysical capabilities. 100%

Some other thoughts, let's say, why would god create poeple, that start WW wars, kill millions of other people? That simply does not make sence, since he's the all mighty, all knowing etc. So basically he made something just to destroy it? Then he's one son of a ****.
So this leads to the fact, that if there is good, there has to be bad, which brings us to satan?
Oww yeaahh, Satan! So The 'god' is the good guy, while the 'satan' is the bad one?
WRONG!
Since god created people, that killed even more people, which he knew that will happen, he is self - proclaimed bad guy. ww1, ww2, all the genocide nonsense, crusades, ancient wars, etc. etc I could go with it all day long.
Plus, as human kind now literally destroys themselves and the planet, did he intended to do that as well? He's a mass murderer then!
If not, that means he's not as almighty as he is stated to be, which makes bibble invalid for lying.
But let's see what satan actually did wrong... HE PUNISHED BAD PEOPLE (which were creted by mr God himself). So that makes the Satan a good guy, while the god is an evil dork.

Plus, the whole religion thing came from the ancient guys, which were far less intelegent as we have kids, that have 12 years, with more intellect.
So how can you think about something you don't understand?
There has to be a reason. Blame something, you don't see, don't hear.. Let's call it.. God. Should do the trick. So ever since, people are complaining god, or asking for it's forgiveness.. Ocasionally some stuff, like a new car or warmer woolen socks.
So it only proves, that 'god' was created by people, becouse:
1) they were dumb
2) they needed stuff
3) someone has to be blamed on stuff.
Why the regilion lived? Easy. There are always some smarter people out there, so they took controll over the mindless ones, had everything. They claimed to 'talk' to gods, and they had everything they needed. I'm jelly of those people!

This is a never ending topic. If you believe in this mr nobody, fine, it's your choice.
I still bet anyone, who goes to church to 'pray mr god', asks for:
1) forgiveness
2) happyness
3) ocasionally some stuff, money, new house.

Don't want to be ignorant etc., just want, so people stop acting like zombies, becouse, in fact, they exist, but they are 'rotting' from the inside, not the outside.
I would personally want that people would start thinking in general, not only when it comes to religion..
I want people to be smart, and to be responsible for they're own future.
Vote me for president!

 

[HaMMerHeD]

Well, yes and no. They believe their Christ is still coming. They do not accept Jesus as their savior (yet, apparently from the way I read it, the time will come when they will believe however).

So they do not believe the New Testament, I think their Torah is similar to the old testament of the Bible.

Generally speaking, the Torah is essentially comprised of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy (also known as the Pentateuch). Some scholars define the Torah more broadly, and include more texts, but the core definition is the Pentateuch. There are a few other Jewish sacred texts, like the Talmud and the Tanakh, but the Torah is the central text.

It predates The Old Testament by a considerable span of years.

Edit: About 1600 years.

 

[jl-austin]

I wonder, what is a 'god' to you? How do you imagine him? WHere is this so called god?
God is everything in nothing, and nothing in everything?
God is in every life form?

I'm kind of done here. I would like to say this though. This is not from the Bible, or any Church service, I read this somewhere.

They say that a person creates an image of God from the attributes of their own earthly human father. So if you have an abusive father, you would put those attributes on God. If you had a loving father, you would put those attributes on God.

I have found this to be true. Lets just say my father was not the most loving father out there. I always thought that God thought of me as trash, someone who will never be worthy.

Then one day it clicked for me, I have heard God and Jesus love you all my life, but it just "clicked" for me at that one point. That Jesus really does love us. To have eternal hope is a wonderful thing, it really is.

 

[Gothic Headhunter]

Oww yeaahh, Satan! So The 'god' is the good guy, while the 'satan' is the bad one?
WRONG!
Since god created people, that killed even more people, which he knew that will happen, he is self - proclaimed bad guy. ww1, ww2, all the genocide nonsense, crusades, ancient wars, etc. etc I could go with it all day long.
Plus, as human kind now literally destroys themselves and the planet, did he intended to do that as well? He's a mass murderer then!
If not, that means he's not as almighty as he is stated to be, which makes bibble invalid for lying.
But let's see what satan actually did wrong... HE PUNISHED BAD PEOPLE (which were creted by mr God himself). So that makes the Satan a good guy, while the god is an evil dork.

Actually, Satan doesn't rule hell, he's its main prisoner.

As for my personal opinion on the subject, I look at it like this: if there truly is an all-powerful, all-knowing god, and, for whatever reason, it didn't want you to have proof that it existed, you would never know if it was real. So, is there a god? I don't know. Could there be a god? Sure.

Now on to the important question: what kind of zombie was Jesus? Charger? Smoker? We need answers!

 

[bhakan]

Another thing that confuses me about the general doctrine of Christianity is that if God loves everyone, but only those who accept Jesus as their savior get into heaven, what about the vast majority of the world's population who had never been exposed to Christianity (which would be more prevalent before the age of technology)? It seems like it contradicts the doctrine of loving everyone if he sends the majority of the population to burn in hell for something they have no control over.

 

[jl-austin]

Another thing that confuses me about the general doctrine of Christianity is that if God loves everyone, but only those who accept Jesus as their savior get into heaven, what about the vast majority of the world's population who had never been exposed to Christianity (which would be more prevalent before the age of technology)? It seems like it contradicts the doctrine of loving everyone if he sends the majority of the population to burn in hell for something they have no control over.

A really good question. I believe something along the lines they will be judged on how well they keep their own religious beliefs (if they had NO chance of hearing about Jesus). I could be VERY wrong about that though.

 

[Gothic Headhunter]

I'm pretty sure that if you did not know about god/Jesus then you wouldn't go to hell, hence the Eskimo and priest argument if you've ever seen it.

 

[HaMMerHeD]

I'm kind of done here. I would like to say this though. This is not from the Bible, or any Church service, I read this somewhere.

They say that a person creates an image of God from the attributes of their own earthly human father. So if you have an abusive father, you would put those attributes on God. If you had a loving father, you would put those attributes on God.

I have found this to be true. Lets just say my father was not the most loving father out there. I always thought that God thought of me as trash, someone who will never be worthy.

Then one day it clicked for me, I have heard God and Jesus love you all my life, but it just "clicked" for me at that one point. That Jesus really does love us. To have eternal hope is a wonderful thing, it really is.

Again...I have to ask...have you actually read the bible? I have, several times, and the God I see in that fucking book is a wholly evil, cruel, and pernicious thug. The book is full of rage, murder, rape, incest, and genocide. Even if that god did exist, I wouldn't worship it. Even as a complete fabrication, it is a being of unlimited malice, entirely unworthy even of respect, much less of worship. It is the most abusive and wretched father figure I can imagine.

And for all the capriciousness of the god of the old testament, the new testament is worse. In the old, god quit fucking with you once you were dead. It took the "gentle, meek, and mild" Jesus in the new testament to introduce the concept of eternal torture as punishment for even the most mild offenses.

 

[groph]

removed