Going from Mac to PC

[billinder33]

I am considering switching from Mac to PC. I need an upgrade in horsepower, and when I compare the cost of the two platforms, I feel that I can no longer justify Apple's incredible pricing premium, even though I love the OS dearly. My last Windows experience was Win 7, and I've heard the OS has improved considerably since that time.

My DAW is Reaper, so projects should migrate without issue, and my other critical music application should as well.

So my question is.... has anyone migrated from Mac to Win recently, and if so, what are your experiences? Are you happy with the switch? Any caveats or considerations?

 

[Drew]

I did the reverse, so I think I can indirectly provide you some color.

• There are a LOT more freeware plugins for PC than there are for Macs. I was relying pretty heavily on the Antress stuff for compression and tape saturation and the like, and when I switched to Mac, suddenly I had to struggle to find another set of "color" compressors, and finally bit the bullet and ponied up for the Waves CLA set on sale. If you switchh to a PC, definitely do a search for free VST plugins, and download and try a ton of stuff.
• They say one of the selling points with a Mac is "everything just works," whereas PCs can get a little more finnicky. Odds are you'll be ok, but for example I remember reading of firewire chipset issues and having to make sure I didn't have the "wrong" chipset when I bought my Firepod waaaay back in the day - that stuff isn't an issue with a closed infastructure like a Mac.
  
• I had my last PC for maybe 6-7 years before the hard drive started flaking out on me, which considering I was in the final stages of drum sequencing and mixing an album I'd been writing for for a decade and recording for three or four years at the time, involved no small amount of panic. I'm probably pushing 5+ on my current Mac, which I bought factory refurbished and I believe was a 2012 (whichever year they introduced the Retina display), and while it seems to be running a little slower than it used to, maybe (or, maybe the project I'm working on now just has a LOT more audio files), it's still chugging along like a champ. Based on people I've talked to who made the switch and had similar experiences, I'd say in general Macs maybe do wear a little better than PCs.
• At the end of the day, while the OS switch was a little disorienting at first, Windows and Mac OS aren't THAT different. If you can get around one, you can getr around the other - it's mostly keyboard shortcuts where I struggle these days.
• A silly one, perhaps, but Mac devices integrate REALLY well with each other. This is totally out of character for me... But one evening, after not even having all that much to drink and just getting distracted by a conversation with the driver, I left my phone in the back of an Uber. Uber has a protocol for retreiving a lost item, but it pretty much requires a phone, and if you can't take a call yourself, you need to give them a friend to call. No easy feat at 12:30. I was able to text a friend who I was pretty sure was still up, get her go-ahead to give Uber her number for the driver to call, and when he texted her shhe looped me into the conversation and we were able to text back and forth from my computer while he dropped another rider off and circled back to my neighborhood too return my phone (when I ran out to pick him up, I brought him a rather nice beer for his trouble, lol). I remember thinking the whole time, "Man, this would be fucking impossible if I was still on a PC!"

Idunno. Overall I'm glad I made the switch and will probably stay mac (especially as I'm running an Apogee Ensemble these days). You have a lot more in the way of 3rd party plugin options on a PC, but they seem to be a bit more finnicky and age faster, and I've had extremely few technical issues with the computer (actually, save for one -- when I got it, there was an issue with the video card. I dropped it off at the Apple Store, maybe a week later they called me and I picked it up, and that was it - never had an issue since. That's kind of a plus, too, having in=person technical support all over the country)".

 

[billinder33]

I did the reverse, so I think I can indirectly provide you some color.

• There are a LOT more freeware plugins for PC than there are for Macs. I was relying pretty heavily on the Antress stuff for compression and tape saturation and the like, and when I switched to Mac, suddenly I had to struggle to find another set of "color" compressors, and finally bit the bullet and ponied up for the Waves CLA set on sale. If you switchh to a PC, definitely do a search for free VST plugins, and download and try a ton of stuff.
• They say one of the selling points with a Mac is "everything just works," whereas PCs can get a little more finnicky. Odds are you'll be ok, but for example I remember reading of firewire chipset issues and having to make sure I didn't have the "wrong" chipset when I bought my Firepod waaaay back in the day - that stuff isn't an issue with a closed infastructure like a Mac.
  
• I had my last PC for maybe 6-7 years before the hard drive started flaking out on me, which considering I was in the final stages of drum sequencing and mixing an album I'd been writing for for a decade and recording for three or four years at the time, involved no small amount of panic. I'm probably pushing 5+ on my current Mac, which I bought factory refurbished and I believe was a 2012 (whichever year they introduced the Retina display), and while it seems to be running a little slower than it used to, maybe (or, maybe the project I'm working on now just has a LOT more audio files), it's still chugging along like a champ. Based on people I've talked to who made the switch and had similar experiences, I'd say in general Macs maybe do wear a little better than PCs.
• At the end of the day, while the OS switch was a little disorienting at first, Windows and Mac OS aren't THAT different. If you can get around one, you can getr around the other - it's mostly keyboard shortcuts where I struggle these days.
• A silly one, perhaps, but Mac devices integrate REALLY well with each other. This is totally out of character for me... But one evening, after not even having all that much to drink and just getting distracted by a conversation with the driver, I left my phone in the back of an Uber. Uber has a protocol for retreiving a lost item, but it pretty much requires a phone, and if you can't take a call yourself, you need to give them a friend to call. No easy feat at 12:30. I was able to text a friend who I was pretty sure was still up, get her go-ahead to give Uber her number for the driver to call, and when he texted her shhe looped me into the conversation and we were able to text back and forth from my computer while he dropped another rider off and circled back to my neighborhood too return my phone (when I ran out to pick him up, I brought him a rather nice beer for his trouble, lol). I remember thinking the whole time, "Man, this would be fucking impossible if I was still on a PC!"

Idunno. Overall I'm glad I made the switch and will probably stay mac (especially as I'm running an Apogee Ensemble these days). You have a lot more in the way of 3rd party plugin options on a PC, but they seem to be a bit more finnicky and age faster, and I've had extremely few technical issues with the computer (actually, save for one -- when I got it, there was an issue with the video card. I dropped it off at the Apple Store, maybe a week later they called me and I picked it up, and that was it - never had an issue since. That's kind of a plus, too, having in=person technical support all over the country)".

I had pretty much the same experience as you when I switched from PC to Mac (about the same time, too). I'm pretty set on plugins, because like you I also ended up having to pay for most of my plugins when I switched.

That said, I need a serious ramp up in horsepower and the new Macbook Pros are running $3,600 for the version I want (15', 1TB SSD - I really want the 2TB SSD, but that takes the price up to a staggering $4000!!!!). I can get an equivalently spec'd Dell XPS for $1700. That's almost a $2000 difference... lot of things I can do with a spare $2,000. Plus the new Macbook 'butterfly switch' keyboards. Unlike a lot of other users, I don't have any issue with the way they feel when typing, but there are way too many reports of reliability issues given the insane price. Additionally, all the components in the MacBooks are glued or shouldered in. In addition to non-upgradability, if it breaks, it's a brick and you need to RMA it back to Apple.

I'm also concerned about hardware integration, particularly with my Apollo 8 Thunderbolt, but that one seems to check out ok.

But my biggest concern is that I just find Mac OS to be more usable. Really don't miss Windows, and really not looking forward to going back. But I can't handle all the CPU dropouts when dealing with large projects anymore. I've heard Windows has made great strides since 7, but I haven't had my hands on one since about 2013.

 

[schwiz]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the Windows 10 experience. I'm actually really happy and excited for you... because new gear is awesome!

I just upgraded from an i5 6600k to an i7 8700k and added an additional 16gb of RAM last weekend and holllllly shit, it's pretty impressive. 100+ track sessions loaded with plugins don't chop the audio or cause CPU issues - its great.

As far as Thunderbolt goes, you should be a-okay as long as you build an Intel machine. AMD does not support Thunderbolt. Depending on which motherboard you get will determine the Thunderbolt driver that you need if I remember right. You absolutely have to get a motherboard with a Thunderbolt add-in card connector otherwise your interface will not work. I just got the GIGABYTE Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming motherboard and it says it has the add-in card connector on top of Thunderbolt 3 AIS support. You will also need the Thunderbolt PCI card. I'd suggest getting the card that matches your motherboard manufacturer. ASUS is a very common one, but if you went something like GIGABYTE, you'd have to order from their website if I remember.

 

[Drew]

That said, I need a serious ramp up in horsepower and the new Macbook Pros are running $3,600 for the version I want (15', 1TB SSD - I really want the 2TB SSD, but that takes the price up to a staggering $4000!!!!). I can get an equivalently spec'd Dell XPS for $1700. That's almost a $2000 difference...

Why not a desktop? You can pimp the hell out of a 21.5" iMac for not much more than that Dell, and if you're hooking it up to outboard rack gear it's not like portability is really a priority...

 

[buriedoutback]

I was at the point where I wanted to get a new Mac because my 2009 iMac couldn't handle my projects (this was only last year!) but I couldn't justify the cost of a new Mac.
I stumbled upon a snazzy labs YouTube video about building a sick Hackintosh from a cheap ass hp 6300. Almost a year later and only about $700 in, I'm running Mac OS Sierra with a quad-core, 16 gigs of ram and a ssd. It's friggin awesome!

 

[KingAenarion]

Just be wary of Hackintosh platforms, as the EULA says you can't do it, so if they find out they can in theory remote lock your enitre platform.

 

[billinder33]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the Windows 10 experience. I'm actually really happy and excited for you... because new gear is awesome!

I just upgraded from an i5 6600k to an i7 8700k and added an additional 16gb of RAM last weekend and holllllly shit, it's pretty impressive. 100+ track sessions loaded with plugins don't chop the audio or cause CPU issues - its great.

As far as Thunderbolt goes, you should be a-okay as long as you build an Intel machine. AMD does not support Thunderbolt. Depending on which motherboard you get will determine the Thunderbolt driver that you need if I remember right. You absolutely have to get a motherboard with a Thunderbolt add-in card connector otherwise your interface will not work. I just got the GIGABYTE Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming motherboard and it says it has the add-in card connector on top of Thunderbolt 3 AIS support. You will also need the Thunderbolt PCI card. I'd suggest getting the card that matches your motherboard manufacturer. ASUS is a very common one, but if you went something like GIGABYTE, you'd have to order from their website if I remember.

Intel 8700k @ 3.7Ghz base.... wow! When you say 'additional' 16G of ram, are you saying that takes you up to like 32G total?

Right now I'm looking at a Dell XPS 15 i-7700 2.8 quadcore w/ 16G RAM and a a 1T SSD. My current Mac is a 2.0G dual core with 8GB RAM and 512 SSD... so If I move to the Dell, I'd have about 6x the processing power and 2X the memory, and 2X the SSD.

I've fought the Mac with larger projects (40+ tracks) by using iZotope Alloy as my primary channel strip (which is very CPU efficient), rendering MIDI synths, and a lot of bussing/stemming/rendering of heavily effected guitar tracks. In addition to saving CPU, doing a little of bussing/stemming also makes mixing large projects a lot easier. but lately I've been using a lot of VST Amp Sims, and those definitely gobble up a lot of CPU, to the point where I have to print almost every guitar track before tracking the next.... it's gotten to the point where I'm spending way too much time doing workarounds to get things done.

I did back-check the Apollo 16 against the XPS' thunderbolt, and according to UA, they've validated XPS as a working platform.

I'm glad to hear your opinion on Windows 10. I'm mostly worried about interfacing with the OS. Moving from Windows 7 to Mac was such a great experience, I can't imaging going back to the Windows 7 paradigm again, but I've heard really good things about 10. So I guess I'm just looking for someone to tell me that it's going to be ok...

 

[billinder33]

Why not a desktop? You can pimp the hell out of a 21.5" iMac for not much more than that Dell, and if you're hooking it up to outboard rack gear it's not like portability is really a priority...

I travel for work a lot, so a huge chunk of my workflow, probably around 50% - drum track composing, basic track cleanup, testing different FX on tracks - is done away from my desk. So I really need to stick with the laptop form factor.

 

[billinder33]

Just be wary of Hackintosh platforms, as the EULA says you can't do it, so if they find out they can in theory remote lock your enitre platform.

Yeah, I'm don't find hacking and troubleshooting to be much fun, so not really interested in Mackintosh, plus I don't think it works on laptops.

 

[justin_time]

I recently made the switch from being a long-time PC user to Mac and I agree with previous posts that the overall difference is minimal, especially if the software you use is available for both Mac and PC.

The Mac software is a bit more stable in my opinion, but partially because I built my previous PC and had more issues dealing with hardware failures/upgrades then anything else.

 

[Mathemagician]

I intend on building a Mac sometime in the next year because I want everything to play nice. And if I ever have to manually install drivers again i’m going to punch someone.

To be fair, Microsoft’s own Surface book laptops have reviews/reports that they’re actually very stable for audio work. And they basically cap out at $2.7-3.2k.

 

[angl2k]

Both computers have their pros and cons imo.

Mac pros:
- looks shiny, wife/living room ready design
- simple, dumbed down user interface
- external hardware works fine with the OS, since you have less choices
- software designed to integrate well and basically lock you into the Apple platform

Mac cons:
- pricey
- limited hardware component upgrade options
- software designed to integrate well and basically lock you into the Apple platform

PC pros:
- cheaper
- more choice of (external) hardware and software
- easy to upgrade hardware components

PC cons:
- stability issues? (haven't experienced it myself the past 10 years)
- user interface? (again, no problems here but I'm a power user)
- hardware looks fugly unless you spend a few extra bucks on design
- more prone to viruses because it's the bigger target platform out there
- software designed to integrate well and basically lock you into the Microsoft platform

 

[schwiz]

Right now I'm looking at a Dell XPS 15 i-7700 2.8 quadcore w/ 16G RAM and a a 1T SSD. My current Mac is a 2.0G dual core with 8GB RAM and 512 SSD... so If I move to the Dell, I'd have about 6x the processing power and 2X the memory, and 2X the SSD.

I apologize, I didn't realize you were talking about a laptop in your op. That Dell should be more than capable of handling medium sized sessions for sure. IMO, DAW's are memory hogs before CPU hogs. If you can, try and get at least 16gb. RAM is so bloody expensive right now though... damn bitcoin miners!! Hopefully it will go back down soon. I'd be most concerned with the Thunderbolt connectivity though, but if UAD says it will work, then it should. Anyways, still excited to hear your thoughts on the conversion from mac to pc when you're outfitted.

 

[Avedas]

If only Windows had a package manager half as decent as homebrew, a proper unix-like structure, and a native terminal that wasn't complete trash. If there were an officially supported way to put MacOS on custom PC hardware it would solve every problem.

 

[billinder33]

If only Windows had a package manager half as decent as homebrew, a proper unix-like structure, and a native terminal that wasn't complete trash. If there were an officially supported way to put MacOS on custom PC hardware it would solve every problem.

I totally agree with this. Early in my Corporate AmericaTM career I cut my teeth on Solaris and HPUX, then Linux. Going to MacOS with the underlying Linux base was so refreshing, I've even used some grep and regex to seek and modify underlying files on rare occasion. I think you can also do this with some recent Windows add-on now.

I really wish Apple would just open-source the MacOS, or at least license it to a few 3rd parties. They don't seem to care that much about it anymore, as you can tell by their outrageously long hardware release cycles. And the MacBook Pro is a total trainwreck (sounds like you have a Linux background.... how would you like to bang on the emoji bar to do an 'escape' while coding in vi?), and recently info has come out that they won't be doing major upgrades in 2018 either. I hate to leave Mac, but don't feel like paying 2x+ for inferior hardware is worth it anymore.

 

[Avedas]

I totally agree with this. Early in my Corporate AmericaTM career I cut my teeth on Solaris and HPUX, then Linux. Going to MacOS with the underlying Linux base was so refreshing, I've even used some grep and regex to seek and modify underlying files on rare occasion. I think you can also do this with some recent Windows add-on now.

I really wish Apple would just open-source the MacOS, or at least license it to a few 3rd parties. They don't seem to care that much about it anymore, as you can tell by their outrageously long hardware release cycles. And the MacBook Pro is a total trainwreck (sounds like you have a Linux background.... how would you like to bang on the emoji bar to do an 'escape' while coding in vi?), and recently info has come out that they won't be doing major upgrades in 2018 either. I hate to leave Mac, but don't feel like paying 2x+ for inferior hardware is worth it anymore.

A 2017 MacBook Pro is actually my daily driver at work, but thankfully it didn't come with the stupid touch bar. I like it for developing and whatever else, but at home I still use Windows for compatibility and the fact Apple stuff is just too goddamn expensive. At least at work the company pays for it.

 

[billinder33]

A 2017 MacBook Pro is actually my daily driver at work, but thankfully it didn't come with the stupid touch bar. I like it for developing and whatever else, but at home I still use Windows for compatibility and the fact Apple stuff is just too goddamn expensive. At least at work the company pays for it.

I assume since you don't have the TouchBar version that you're using the 13'?

What's your thought on the keyboard? People either seem to love it or hate it.

Also, are you running Windows 10 at home? How would you rate it vs MacOS these days (my last Win experience is Win7)?

 

[angl2k]

If only Windows had a package manager half as decent as homebrew, a proper unix-like structure, and a native terminal that wasn't complete trash. If there were an officially supported way to put MacOS on custom PC hardware it would solve every problem.

Well there's cygwin and chocolatey but personally I use neither of those

 

[Avedas]

I assume since you don't have the TouchBar version that you're using the 13'?

What's your thought on the keyboard? People either seem to love it or hate it.

Also, are you running Windows 10 at home? How would you rate it vs MacOS these days (my last Win experience is Win7)?

Yeah 13 inch. The keyboard is actually surprisingly pretty good, but I hate the power button placement. I've always been a mechanical keyboard guy but it would be hard to use one and the touchpad at the same time, and gestures are just too powerful to give up for a bit of comfort. Also the arrow keys are just awful.

At home I run Windows 7 on my desktop and 10 on my laptop. The laptop is just a loaner from a friend and I'm pretty sure it's actually too slow to run Windows 10 properly. The main UI lags about all the time even with nothing else running. I'm not the biggest fan of it but that's likely because I haven't taken the time to learn all its quirks like I have with Windows 7 after years of use. I can't use High Sierra at work so I'm not too sure what's new for MacOS. Still both come down to their regular strengths. Windows has greater compatibility and Mac feels better to use.