Greg Howe is now with Carvin (24 Fret Bolt-On Coming)
- Thread starter Xiphos68
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edsped
Well-Known Member
The only ones I've seen in person are the cheapo models hanging at Guitar Center. I'd want to try a higher end model before making a judgment.
InCasinoOut
syncopAZN
He's probably worried too about Carvin being worried
Let me guess, you're just in this thread to bash Greg Howe?
yingmin
Parker über alles
Furthermore, I liked how he talked about the Guitar Center thing without coming across as whiny or indignant. He has a very level-headed attitude about it, which helps present his move to Carvin as a rational business decision instead of the kind of high school politics you often hear from things like this.
There's no reason for Greg Howe's opinions about Carvin to affect how you see the company itself.
Does Carvin ship directly to Canada? The trick to Carvin, and sorry if it seems like I've been belaboring this point lately, is that the reason Carvins are so cheap in the US is that they sell directly, rather than through dealers. Buying a Carvin overseas introduces not only the usual taxes and fees for shipping, but also a dealer markup, which makes the cost increase of a Carvin much higher than other brands that are only sold through dealers.
Greg Howe is a total bad ass. Epic ....ing guitar player.
Laguna guitars were great for the price. I had some students whose parents bought them some when they were in the states. Great little 3/4 sized starter acoustics. Better than what Samick was offering by a long shot. No idea on their "higher" end stuff, and just like Agile the, "...for the price..." statement is an important qualifier.
Carvin's are a great buy in the US. Reasonable price for a semi-custom, decent quality, and they don't .... up any more than any other custom shop does.
Outside the the US their prices sky rocket and they are bumped up into a whole different price bracket. Where the mistakes they make are...less okay... and they should be judged much more harshly then they tend to be on this board. What with the majority of people being American and whatnot.
Laguna guitars were great for the price. I had some students whose parents bought them some when they were in the states. Great little 3/4 sized starter acoustics. Better than what Samick was offering by a long shot. No idea on their "higher" end stuff, and just like Agile the, "...for the price..." statement is an important qualifier.
Carvin's are a great buy in the US. Reasonable price for a semi-custom, decent quality, and they don't .... up any more than any other custom shop does.
Outside the the US their prices sky rocket and they are bumped up into a whole different price bracket. Where the mistakes they make are...less okay... and they should be judged much more harshly then they tend to be on this board. What with the majority of people being American and whatnot.
axxessdenied
Arium Addict
Carvin is FVCKING KILLING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Carvin ships direct to Canada, yes.
And I'm well aware that Carvin uses international dealers, just didn't expect the mark up to be so massive. Good thing I live in NA
Zado
Well-Known Member
You are guessing wrong.
Nope,by any means,I like his music,why should I bash him? I just commented in a very standard way,I hope replying in a topic without saying how awesome guitars and guitarist are is not considered "bashing" now
yingmin
Parker über alles
"Now"? How long have you been using the internet?
And I'm well aware that Carvin uses international dealers, just didn't expect the mark up to be so massive. Good thing I live in NA
That's kind of my point, though. The markup only seems massive if you compare it to other brands that already have a dealer markup in North America. You don't see the dealer markup on other brands; you only see the price of the guitar. So the difference between a guitar with a dealer markup in Anerica and a dealer markup in a foreign market is going to be much smaller than the difference between the domestic price with no dealer markup and the foreign price with a dealer markup. Carvins are, if you'll pardon the expression, artificially cheap in North America. The foreign prices of Carvins are more like what Carvins would cost in North America if Carvin sold through dealers.
Grand Moff Tim
Some call me... Tim
The point of contention, though, is that unlike with other brands where there is a markup on guitars through retailers in both the US and other markets, Carvins are available direct and sans retailer markup in the US but not in other markets. Outside of the US, people pretty much expect to pay more for American products (or in the bizarre case of Korea, even for Korean-made products produced for non-Korean companies), but we usually know that that's because of import duties, taxes, shipping, or whatever, and not because a company just doesn't use the same business model outside of its own borders. It's doubly frustrating since prior to a few years ago, many countries could still get their Carvins factory direct, but Carvin did away with that.
At any rate, on the topic of the thread, it's cool that they're doing a Bolt 24 now, and they've definitely been doing cool things in the bass department over the last couple years. Shame I don't live in NA
.yingmin
Parker über alles
Yes, that is, as far as I can tell, exactly what I just said. I imagine there's a reason they stopped selling directly to customers outside of North America, because it may just be that the business model didn't really work for them on an international scale.
Grand Moff Tim
Some call me... Tim
Yeah, I was just restating with less of the "See, it's really not that big a deal" tone your statement had, and more of a "Here's why it's still irritating, in spite of that" tone. It makes sense in my head
.I don't know why they made the change. Their official statement at the time was that apparently people in foreign markets were asking to be able to purchase through a retailer/middle man instead of direct because it was "more convenient" or whatever.
Here, lemme find the thread real quick...
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/116160-carvin-international-price-increase.html
The relevant bit:
"To all International Carvin Customers,
Carvinworld.com received a major upgrade yesterday which closely mirrors the Carvin.com site. Among the many changes, the most notable one is the new pricing that is shown online. The online pricing was changed to reflect Carvin’s new sales through dealers strategy for Europe and the rest of the world. For the past year Carvin offered our products online directly to the customer. In doing so, many customers used carvinworld.com to decide what they wanted to buy but then asked to make the final purchase through their local shop since they did not want to deal with importing challenges and take the “risk” of dealing with an international company. Musicians simply want the piece of mind that comes with purchasing from their local shop. So with this in mind, the Carvin direct price is no loner available.
Why have the prices gone up so much?
Selling products in Europe for example requires a price that includes the VAT, shipping , dealer/distributor costs all rolled into one number. With the exception of the dealer/distributor cost, the “old” carvinworld price still added in VAT and shipping charges during the cart checkout so the price shown online was actually a lot higher by the time the order was placed. Shipping and VAT can account for as much as 50% of the cost of the product and distribution can add another 50% to put Carvin in your local shop.
Different Prices for Different Markets
If you compare US prices to other countries you will find that it costs more to buy an imported product. For example, a Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier costs you 1800 USD + tax to purchase from a major online retailer in the US. The same head purchased from a major online shop in Europe is selling this head for 2699-EUR or $3,657-USD. That’s double the US price. It simply cost a lot more to import and floor a product overseas.
Thank you,
Carvinworld Team"
Sooooo yeah. Take from that what you will. The responses in that thread, though, indicate that plenty of people were none too pleased, and the value that Carvin previously offered around the world is now only relevant in NA.
yingmin
Parker über alles
Again, I don't really keep up on Carvin, so I'm genuinely asking this question, not trying to trick you into saying any particular thing. Do you feel that statement is untrue or dishonest? If so, how? Also, the way it's worded, it sounds like they only offered international direct shipping for one year. Is that accurate?
Grand Moff Tim
Some call me... Tim
Parts of it, yes. This part in particular:
"many customers used carvinworld.com to decide what they wanted to buy but then asked to make the final purchase through their local shop since they did not want to deal with importing challenges and take the “risk” of dealing with an international company.Musicians simply want the piece of mind that comes with purchasing from their local shop."
I just can't see that being true at all for most people. The response that got in the thread I linked seems to suggest I'm right, though I'm open to the possibility that I'm not. The price/quality ratio of ordering direct balanced out any "risk" there might have been to dealing with an international company, and I'd at least rather have that value than whatever piece of mind they think a dealer would give me.
Seriously, if ESP were to give people in the US the option of buying their stuff direct from them without retailer markup or buying from a store with the retailer markup, do you honestly think more people would choose to get one from a store because they're scared of ordering internationally?
Iono, perhaps I'm just out of the loop and give customers more credit than they deserve. I'm not saying that sarcastically, either. It's possible people would rather pay a huge premium in order to buy from a human being, and I'm just projecting when I assume they wouldn't.
From correspondence I've had with an employee in the past, it sounds like some countries have always had to use retailers, some never had to (and still don't), and others have gone back and forth.
HighGain510
Contributor
Normally I'm really not a fan of the "(insert product here) IS SO EXPENSIVE OUTSIDE THE US!!!" price bickering, but at least in this thread it is on point considering part of the subject is Greg Howe's reasoning for wanting to leave Laguna and join Carvin. I do find it a little funny that he's said this:
While it's great that people overseas CAN place an order for one and all, it becomes quite a limiting factor when the price they're going to pay is 2-4x what folks in the US would pay and would likely turn off most of your overseas fans in the first place. Someone else already made the comment that while Howe is a fantastic player, he doesn't have quite the fanbase of someone like Vai so I highly doubt having his name slapped onto the model is going to attract those overseas fans at the pricepoint they're likely facing to obtain one of his sig models. You would have to be a REALLY big Howe fan to want to pay $2-3K for what is really a $1K bolt-on.
His argument is just unrealistic/misguided, not to mention (unless I've missed it) there are not really any huge dealers overseas sitting on a bunch of Carvin in-stock guitars at any given moment or anything like that, so the whole "you couldn't find Laguna in stores over there!" argument kinda goes out the window when the brand he has switched to doesn't have any local presence outside of the US for those customers to begin with.
Carvin might be able to help him out from the road by air-mailing him a guitar if one of his guitars has problems or disappears while he's overseas, but the move to Carvin honestly doesn't change anything for those overseas fans as they're still paying unappealing, higher rates for Carvin stuff and they're not available in a showroom locally so it's not like they can just go to their local music shop and pick one up like he's trying to make it seem through his argument for moving to Carvin. 
Not sure if he's reading from note cards someone handed him from Carvin PR but if you take 30 seconds to think about the argument, it just doesn't hold water whatsoever. 
The interview with Howe just had me scratching my head a bit I guess. He didn't "leave" Laguna so much as GC basically retired the brand under the radar because it didn't sell well and they realized it was a bad investment, so the whole pitch surrounding all that seems a bit forced to be honest.
He should have focused more on how he got picked up by Carvin and less on it being a "decision" to leave Laguna since they basically dried up and disappeared off the face of the planet without a sound. 
I think Carvin adding a 24-fret bolt-on model to the lineup is awesome, lots of folks (myself included) had been asking about this forever so it's great to see the option finally popping up years later.
Greg Howe said:
While it's great that people overseas CAN place an order for one and all, it becomes quite a limiting factor when the price they're going to pay is 2-4x what folks in the US would pay and would likely turn off most of your overseas fans in the first place. Someone else already made the comment that while Howe is a fantastic player, he doesn't have quite the fanbase of someone like Vai so I highly doubt having his name slapped onto the model is going to attract those overseas fans at the pricepoint they're likely facing to obtain one of his sig models.
You would have to be a REALLY big Howe fan to want to pay $2-3K for what is really a $1K bolt-on. His argument is just unrealistic/misguided, not to mention (unless I've missed it) there are not really any huge dealers overseas sitting on a bunch of Carvin in-stock guitars at any given moment or anything like that, so the whole "you couldn't find Laguna in stores over there!" argument kinda goes out the window when the brand he has switched to doesn't have any local presence outside of the US for those customers to begin with.
Carvin might be able to help him out from the road by air-mailing him a guitar if one of his guitars has problems or disappears while he's overseas, but the move to Carvin honestly doesn't change anything for those overseas fans as they're still paying unappealing, higher rates for Carvin stuff and they're not available in a showroom locally so it's not like they can just go to their local music shop and pick one up like he's trying to make it seem through his argument for moving to Carvin. Not sure if he's reading from note cards someone handed him from Carvin PR but if you take 30 seconds to think about the argument, it just doesn't hold water whatsoever. The interview with Howe just had me scratching my head a bit I guess. He didn't "leave" Laguna so much as GC basically retired the brand under the radar because it didn't sell well and they realized it was a bad investment, so the whole pitch surrounding all that seems a bit forced to be honest.
He should have focused more on how he got picked up by Carvin and less on it being a "decision" to leave Laguna since they basically dried up and disappeared off the face of the planet without a sound. I think Carvin adding a 24-fret bolt-on model to the lineup is awesome, lots of folks (myself included) had been asking about this forever so it's great to see the option finally popping up years later.
rYche
Member
Wonder if it'd be cheaper to take a trip to the US and pick up a guitar? 
How much of a pain is it to travel internationally with a guitar? Seems to have gotten a little nicer in the US with certain airlines allowing you to have it as a carry on.
How much of a pain is it to travel internationally with a guitar? Seems to have gotten a little nicer in the US with certain airlines allowing you to have it as a carry on.
dshea19
Well-Known Member
Just as a point of clarification: Greg Howe did not leave Laguna. Guitar Center discontinued the brand.
HighGain510
Contributor
The interview with Howe just had me scratching my head a bit I guess. He didn't "leave" Laguna so much as GC basically retired the brand under the radar because it didn't sell well and they realized it was a bad investment, so the whole pitch surrounding all that seems a bit forced to be honest.
That point has already been clarified.
Tom Drinkwater
ERG/ERB Builder
It's too bad Carvin won't sell direct world wide so then all the international customers would need to pay extra would be shipping and tax which is high enough already.
I've owned and played a pile of their stuff and was very impressed with the features, build quality and consistency of their stuff. I even like the pickups. A 24 fret bolt is a great idea. I'm not a huge fan of Howe's but if he get Carvin to bring a 24 fret bolt to market then he's ok in my book.
I've owned and played a pile of their stuff and was very impressed with the features, build quality and consistency of their stuff. I even like the pickups. A 24 fret bolt is a great idea. I'm not a huge fan of Howe's but if he get Carvin to bring a 24 fret bolt to market then he's ok in my book.
InfestedRabite
Well-Known Member
I know here in NZ our post office offers a service where you get something sent in the US to their US address, then they ship it here for you (for stuff that doesn't ship internationally). The original seller has no idea where it's going. The shipping costs are pretty regular but could be better than paying the dealer markup.
