Guitar Center going out of business?

[stevexc]

I'm really glad the "mom & pop" store in my neck of the woods - AXE - has done quite well for itself. Big enough to be financially stable, but not so big to have to deal with corporate issues or the store-level inconsistencies that seem to be a major issue with GC - at least from the anecdotes in this thread.

 

[JoeyBTL]

I like the idea of mom and pop shops. I wish I had better ones around me but, for example, the last time I tried to buy a TS-9 at my local store, called in and the girl said they have a used one for $99 and it was missing the battery cover. I acted shocked and she said you won't get them cheaper anywhere else.... so I went to GC and got a new one for the same price.

I feel like thats just the normal thing with smaller shops, everything is more expensive. And thats even before the 15% discount you can get at anytime from GC/MF etc.

 

[VBCheeseGrater]

I consider the loss a renting fee if I can sell it close enough to what I bought it for.

Amen - it's like a savings bond with a potential slight loss.

Considering the other ways i've blown money in the past, i'll take it!

 

[groverj3]

I've had both good and bad experiences at the place.

Personally, I think they have far too many stores. I've NEVER lived in a city that had a GC with a good selection. They do exist though, and I've been to a few. It's all based on how much business they get. If I think back to places I've lived: South Bend, IN, Lansing, MI, Kalamazoo, MI, and now Tucson, AZ. None of these are going to move lots of high end stuff.

I've had good and bad experiences with employees, too. So many that know little to nothing about anything. However, I've been friendly with some of the managers and they tend to know their stuff. You don't usually end up managing a store without knowing about what you sell.

People would lose jobs if they went out of business and that's never good. I also wonder if we'd see a ripple effect through gear prices if GC disappeared.

 

[Overtone]

At this point they're not going under. Here's a basic timeline

> Bain buys GC
> Saddles company with debt in order to fund expansion, initiatives, and pay dividends to Bain beneficiaries (which includes many public pension plans among others FYI...it's not always fatcats but retired teachers, etc. having a stake in this).
> Ares capital management buys up some of the debt
> it's time for GC to pay off some of its debt but it can't come up with the money.
> Ares leads a "restructuring" where the debt is forgiven (written off) or partially forgiven, and Ares becomes an owner of GC instead of simply being a lender to GC.

The restructuring is an alternative to filing for bankruptcy. Filing chapter 11 is usually when the most severe stuff happens (renegotiating contracts with workers, cutting pensions, etc), but it's been avoided. Often in these situations the new owners will be very aggressive nonetheless in order to fix whatever was causing bad performance. In this particular case I think a lot of the problem was the debt and not the operations themselves. Also, Ares is not known as an extremely aggressive firm in terms of stripping down companies or anything like that. I don't expect we'll see any drastic changes outside of certain weaker areas being dropped. I actually won't be surprised at all if the website catches up to the correct decade though.

 

[Chris O]

I'll echo a thought said many times -- it's never good for that many jobs to go by the wayside.

That said, I've never understood the need for FOUR GC store in the Mpls/St Paul area. When there was one store, it was a zoo, but man -- great deals to be found, used gear was concentrated in one spot, and the employees were pretty good...minus a few assholes, but that happens everywhere. I miss those days. Bigger isn't always better. I don't think it was healthy here. You walk into these stores, and the walls have *maybe* half of what was there a little over a year ago, NO used gear beyond crap they shouldn't have bought anyway, and a revolving door of 'bro-brahs'. Luckily, there are still a few good guys left where I go, but I can't imagine trying to make it in that environment.

 

[Henry Terry]

I like Guitar Center, and I buy all of my stuff from them now. I have been buying guitars, amplifiers, pedals and related equipment since 1969, and Guitar Center compares favorably with all of the stores where I have purchased equipment or tried out equipment - including Manny's and Sam Ash in Manhattan, Mandolin Brothers on Staten Island, Lark Street Music in Teaneck, New Jersey and Rudi's in Manhattan.

From 1994 to 2012, I was living in Richmond, Virginia, and I frequented Guitar Center stores in Richmond, Falls Church, Virginia, Fairfax, Virginia and Rockville, Maryland. Now I'm back in the Boston area, and I go to the two Boston stores and others in the Boston area.

First of all, I like the 30-day return policy. I used it only once, but I was impressed with the ease with which I was able to do it. I had bought my second Jackson SLSMG in the Richmond store. Then I encountered one in the Fairfax store which felt "better" to me. I was able to swap them in less than 15 minutes.

Second, their selection is superior to those of other stores that I've visited. It is true that their selection is heavy on the Fenders, Gibsons and Paul Reed Smiths. However, those brands have good offerings (I dispute the rampant Gibson hating). Furthermore, there are other new guitars that they carry, and their selection of used equipment at most of the stores is good and at some spectacular. I once had an "otherworldly" experience with a VHT Pittbull UltraLead at the Rockville, Maryland store, and I would have bought it had I been able to afford it. I was also able to try out both a VHT Deliverance and a VHT Pittbull Hundred CLX on the same day at the Falls Church, Virginia store. There have also been Buddas, vintage Fenders and vintage Marshalls.

Their acoustic guitar selections have been very good to outstanding, depending upon the store.

I have visited numerous "Mom and Pop" stores. Although some of them have had one or two exceptionally good items, none had the selection that Guitar Center has.

A frequent complaint I have read is that the salespeople at Guitar Center don't know anything. I disagree. Some of them that I have encountered have been exceptionally knowledgeable and have been able to give me exactly the help that I've need.

Finally, I note that I am very knowledgeable about guitars and related equipment, having been a gear head for there past 40+ years. I have owned several professional quality guitars and several professional quality amplifiers.

If Guitar Center goes out of business, then I will feel that guitar/amp customers will have suffered a major blow to their ability to find and try out a wide range of good to excellent guitars before buying one.

 

[poopyalligator]

I like Guitar Center, and I buy all of my stuff from them now. I have been buying guitars, amplifiers, pedals and related equipment since 1969, and Guitar Center compares favorably with all of the stores where I have purchased equipment or tried out equipment - including Manny's and Sam Ash in Manhattan, Mandolin Brothers on Staten Island, Lark Street Music in Teaneck, New Jersey and Rudi's in Manhattan.

From 1994 to 2012, I was living in Richmond, Virginia, and I frequented Guitar Center stores in Richmond, Falls Church, Virginia, Fairfax, Virginia and Rockville, Maryland. Now I'm back in the Boston area, and I go to the two Boston stores and others in the Boston area.

First of all, I like the 30-day return policy. I used it only once, but I was impressed with the ease with which I was able to do it. I had bought my second Jackson SLSMG in the Richmond store. Then I encountered one in the Fairfax store which felt "better" to me. I was able to swap them in less than 15 minutes.

Second, their selection is superior to those of other stores that I've visited. It is true that their selection is heavy on the Fenders, Gibsons and Paul Reed Smiths. However, those brands have good offerings (I dispute the rampant Gibson hating). Furthermore, there are other new guitars that they carry, and their selection of used equipment at most of the stores is good and at some spectacular. I once had an "otherworldly" experience with a VHT Pittbull UltraLead at the Rockville, Maryland store, and I would have bought it had I been able to afford it. I was also able to try out both a VHT Deliverance and a VHT Pittbull Hundred CLX on the same day at the Falls Church, Virginia store. There have also been Buddas, vintage Fenders and vintage Marshalls.

Their acoustic guitar selections have been very good to outstanding, depending upon the store.

I have visited numerous "Mom and Pop" stores. Although some of them have had one or two exceptionally good items, none had the selection that Guitar Center has.

A frequent complaint I have read is that the salespeople at Guitar Center don't know anything. I disagree. Some of them that I have encountered have been exceptionally knowledgeable and have been able to give me exactly the help that I've need.

Finally, I note that I am very knowledgeable about guitars and related equipment, having been a gear head for there past 40+ years. I have owned several professional quality guitars and several professional quality amplifiers.

If Guitar Center goes out of business, then I will feel that guitar/amp customers will have suffered a major blow to their ability to find and try out a wide range of good to excellent guitars before buying one.

I live in New Mexico, and the guitar centers over there sound amazing compared to the ones over here. They dont even have PRS guitars at mine, and maybe 2 gibsons that arent les paul studios or juniors. The amp section consists of nothing more than marshall mgs, line 6 spiders, and whatever low end shit fender and acoustic are pedaling these days. The employees at the store here are absolutely terrible, and their acoustic section is laughable, and has several guitars that have warped neck because of the dry climate here. I figure that I am in a big enough city to where we should have a decent guitar center. When I lived in MD the guitars centers there were amazing, I loved the rockville, glen burnie, and towson stores. I have a feeling that most smaller towns get shafted though. I think that will be their downfall.

The mom and pop stores over here pretty much kick ass. They have a better selection of instruments including high end instruments as well. They are comparable in price (if not sometimes even cheaper), and they tend to know their shit because they are actually passionate about it. I think most bigger cities have a lot of stores like that, and that is why guitar center is failing.

 

[Metal-Box]

I love my local GC in Cherry Hill, NJ. They have a good selection and their used section is nice to browse. I stop by once a week to see what they have and have spent thousands in GC on used and new stuff. I'd much rather pick up used gear there than go to some strangers place on CL.

The staff is friendly and their techs are really good as well. I've never felt uncomfortable or unwelcome there.

What makes people think that if GC went out of business, things would be better? That doesn't mean private shops are going to pop out of the woodwork, and the ones that do don't guarantee a better experience.

 

[Don Vito]

Went to GC yesterday. Stock was full of new stuff, and they're getting ready for a new lesson program. IDK what to believe, but it's great to be able to play more than 3 decent guitars in a visit. I've also realized that GC is actually a decent place when you're there on a weekday, and there aren't dudes RIPPIN' it up on a Line 6 cranked to 11.

 

[tedtan]

I've stopped by a couple of GC's here in Houston since this thread pooped up and I've noticed that they both had fewer guitars than in the past, but nothing like what some are mentioning here. If I weren't comparing to prior visits, I probably wouldn't even have noticed. I haven't hit the Westheimer store yet, but I doubt it's showing any signs of distress at this point since it's a higher end GC Pro store and has their "platinum" and "vintage" rooms, and these issues are most likely more evident in the lower tier stores.

On the topic of mom and pop stores, some of you sound like you have some pretty bad mom and pop stores in your area, but here in Houston, I'm more likely to find something I'm interested in at Fuller's, Rockin Robin, etc., than I am at one of the GC's in town (except, possibly, the Westheimer location) and get a better price, too. GC used to discount, too, before Bain bought them out, but these days it's just a small discount, not the cost or cost plus 5% I used to get. Hell, they used to sell below cost on items they wanted to move, but now I see them sitting on broken guitars (broken as in obviously cracked) and unwilling to discount from the new price even though the guitar isn't in new condition anymore.

But if GC is the only option you have to play gear beyond Squire and Epiphone, I can see how you wouldn't want to lose them.

 

[crazyprofessor]

One of the main debtors recently converted most of their debt to equity:

Ares Management Gains Control of Guitar Center - WSJ.com

Not sure what this means for the continuing operations. Inventories at my local GC is down dramatically.

 

[Overtone]

I've stopped by a couple of GC's here in Houston since this thread pooped up and I've noticed that they both had fewer guitars than in the past, but nothing like what some are mentioning here. If I weren't comparing to prior visits, I probably wouldn't even have noticed. I haven't hit the Westheimer store yet, but I doubt it's showing any signs of distress at this point since it's a higher end GC Pro store and has their "platinum" and "vintage" rooms, and these issues are most likely more evident in the lower tier stores.

On the topic of mom and pop stores, some of you sound like you have some pretty bad mom and pop stores in your area, but here in Houston, I'm more likely to find something I'm interested in at Fuller's, Rockin Robin, etc., than I am at one of the GC's in town (except, possibly, the Westheimer location) and get a better price, too. GC used to discount, too, before Bain bought them out, but these days it's just a small discount, not the cost or cost plus 5% I used to get. Hell, they used to sell below cost on items they wanted to move, but now I see them sitting on broken guitars (broken as in obviously cracked) and unwilling to discount from the new price even though the guitar isn't in new condition anymore.

But if GC is the only option you have to play gear beyond Squire and Epiphone, I can see how you wouldn't want to lose them.

Both of those mom and pops can be kinda hit or miss. At RR, depending on who you're dealing with they sometimes really limit your demo time for trying out new gear. Their selection is also geared towards certain brands, and when it comes to pro audio GC has them beat by miles... hell, I've had to return cables to RR no less than 3 times because they were always labeled as being a different length than what they actually were. At Fullers, for several years now I'll walk in and pick up guitars off the rack that are just in a piss poor state (floyd rose bridges with the springs WAY too tight, dried out fretboards, rusted strings, etc). They don't seem to pick up many more USA Jacksons, and half their staff is too checked out to really give a .... about customer interaction. GC is a little more consistent and covers more of my regular needs but I still like the mom and pops for finding more unique stuff.

One of the main debtors recently converted most of their debt to equity:

Ares Management Gains Control of Guitar Center - WSJ.com

Not sure what this means for the continuing operations. Inventories at my local GC is down dramatically.

probably some new management, cost cutting measures and some long overdue updates to things like the website, ios/android apps, etc.. It really depends on this... the current deal reduces their interest payments by some amount. If that amount is enough they really can continue on the track they're on because they've removed that burden. If it's not, that's a pretty good indication that they'll have to eliminate some costs.

 

[Andromalia]

Now I have no idea about where the bulk of profit comes from in GC but I will say that I assume removing guitars and only selling accessories will severely decrease profits. You don't see long lines of people standing in line for strings and cables, but you consistently find between 4-5 guitarists at any given time trying out gear.

Doesn't work that way. Walmart would start to stock strings with the hope that even guitarists who do not buy guitars would buy their mayonnaise there.
even if the strings, picks, etc are a loss, the overall income from having new guitarist customers buying their food etc there would make it a good move to sell them

 

[Thorerges]

This is actually not so good news for me personally. While it is true that I have met a fair share of salespeople who knew nothing about guitars and just wanted to sell some amp or guitar to me - I actually like the idea of having a megastore that contained a ton of instruments.

I hate the idea of buying guitars online - Sweetwater and stuff like that are really cool, but you MUST try a guitar before you buy. I was actually an unshakeable Ibanez fan until I tried a Jackson soloist and was completely blown away by the neck and quality. This is something online purchasing cannot make up for, period.

 

[ArtDecade]

Just bought a Gretsch 6120 from GC a month or so back. I chose them because they have always treated me right and I have developed some nice relationships with the sales staff.

 

[jephjacques]

I hate the idea of buying guitars online - Sweetwater and stuff like that are really cool, but you MUST try a guitar before you buy. I was actually an unshakeable Ibanez fan until I tried a Jackson soloist and was completely blown away by the neck and quality. This is something online purchasing cannot make up for, period.

Sweetwater's customer service is amazing, I wanted to exchange a guitar and they not only covered shipping the first one back, they overnighted the new one to my door.

 

[Thorerges]

Sweetwater's customer service is amazing, I wanted to exchange a guitar and they not only covered shipping the first one back, they overnighted the new one to my door.

Yes it is, absolutely. If I had something I absolutely knew was perfect, I would order through sweetwater. However, if you're just trying stuff out - like I was before I came across a model I really thought was neat, guitar center is very useful.

 

[Abaddon9112]

I'm not sure if the nails are in GC's coffin just yet. My local one has definitely been trimming their inventory. But they still have loads of guitars, the whole wall was more or less full when I was in there on the weekend. I didn't get the impression that they were suffering too terribly.

I guess we'll wait and see. I'm kinda rooting for them, they really do have a superior selection to pretty much every place within 50 miles of me.

 

[morestrings111]

What about GC's used inventory? Seems to be REAL slim pickin's there. They must be getting more selective about what they buy.