Guitar getting drowned out when the drums get loud

[BaylorPRSer]

Hi there.

I play in a 3-piece with guitar, bass, and drums. For some bits, we mix quite well. However, when the drums get loud, he's hitting louder cymbals, snare volume is going up, etc. my guitar gets drowned out.

For example, we cover Under the Bridge by RHCP, as soon as the drums take off after the second chorus, I get buried.

The issue is actually more pronounced with distortion guitar parts.

For example, we cover Shimmer by Fuel. I switch from clean to dirty right when the drums crank up, and sometimes I'm inaudible (this was verified by people in the audience, so it wasn't a monitoring issue).

I'm currently playing through a POD HD500X running direct.

Is the solution simply to take note of the parts where the drums get loud and make sure I have more volume?

I don't want to get in a loudness war with my drummer, so figured it was better to ask here before retooling the POD in this way.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

Is the solution simply to take note of the parts where the drums get loud and make sure I have more volume?

This would ideally be managed by the soundman.

That said, assuming you don't have a soundman, you could have a "verse" sound and a "chorus" sound, with the "chorus" sound being a slightly louder version of the verse sound.

Rather than just pumping more volume, you could experiment with pumping more midrange, or a mix of the two.

 

[74n4LL0]

I had a similar issue in a 4 piece band. When I was using humbuckers I was getting drowned, this did not happen with single coils... So try using EQ as just suggested or a boost to use when needed?

 

[TedEH]

I don't want to get in a loudness war with my drummer

As a former drummer, I'd want to be able to hear what you're playing, and if the audience can't, there's a good change your drummer can't either. Drummer's can't really enter volume wars, because you can't meaningfully adjust the volume of a drum. They're just loud, end of sentence. So either you're audible or you're not.

I don't know the POD, but I assume your clean and dirt sounds are different patches or something? Just turn the dirt sound up. If it's too much, someone will tell you. They certainly weren't shy about commenting already.

running direct

This is one of the reasons I always keep a cab on stage, even if the FoH has a direct sound. You have no reference point for what anyone is hearing. If you've got a cab on stage, and you can hear the cab, and the drummer can hear the cab, and the PA is doing its job of reinforcement, then it's not a guess. You're otherwise at the mercy of the PA, the sound guy, the room, basically everything is outside of your control.

 

[sleewell]

This is one of the reasons I always keep a cab on stage, even if the FoH has a direct sound. You have no reference point for what anyone is hearing. If you've got a cab on stage, and you can hear the cab, and the drummer can hear the cab, and the PA is doing its job of reinforcement, then it's not a guess. You're otherwise at the mercy of the PA, the sound guy, the room, basically everything is outside of your control.

I agree on having a cab on stage.

Problem becomes when they wanna put all the amps in a line right w drums or even in front like if they are backlining 3 or 4 bands. the drummer might not hear that too well if a closed back cab is pointing out towards the crowd that is in front of them. Some sort of monitor for drums is ideal but presents other obstacles.

 

[jaxadam]

MOAR MIDS

 

[SalsaWood]

Sounds like a drummer problem and for once I'm not kidding. I've played with more than a few drummers like that. Tell him to quiet the fuck down or louden up, but stick to it. You don't need to play drums faster or more to play louder, the volume knob on a drum set is the stick.

All that said, if your instruments were decently high volume already a bit of velocity change on the cymbals wouldn't ruin anything. Maybe the whole band could stand to come up a little bit.

 

[BaylorPRSer]

I had a similar issue in a 4 piece band. When I was using humbuckers I was getting drowned, this did not happen with single coils... So try using EQ as just suggested or a boost to use when needed?

Boosting as needed is tricky because I have to sing as well. It's tough to go "oh, this patch needs more volume this time, I'll just hit this switch right here then" when I'm playing AND singing. This is an overall good suggestion though.

 

[BaylorPRSer]

As a former drummer, I'd want to be able to hear what you're playing, and if the audience can't, there's a good change your drummer can't either. Drummer's can't really enter volume wars, because you can't meaningfully adjust the volume of a drum. They're just loud, end of sentence. So either you're audible or you're not.

I don't know the POD, but I assume your clean and dirt sounds are different patches or something? Just turn the dirt sound up. If it's too much, someone will tell you. They certainly weren't shy about commenting already.


This is one of the reasons I always keep a cab on stage, even if the FoH has a direct sound. You have no reference point for what anyone is hearing. If you've got a cab on stage, and you can hear the cab, and the drummer can hear the cab, and the PA is doing its job of reinforcement, then it's not a guess. You're otherwise at the mercy of the PA, the sound guy, the room, basically everything is outside of your control.

I might just do that. I saw some pedal at the music store that works as a power amp. Maybe could snag that and a small cab. Go guitar ->POD -> power amp pedal -> cab

 

[Chris_N]

I did not understand if you're talking about playing live or recording/mixing.
If you are singing and your playing follows the dynamics of your vocals, maybe the pod ist not the best choice.
You can try making a new patch with more volume and then adjust the volume of your guitar. Maybe you have to reduce compression in the patch, so it gets more dynamic. That's how you do it with tube amps.
If the prob is the mix, you can use volume automation on guitar and drums to compensate.

 

[kerryymm]

When I was gigging I switched from an Orange Rockerverb to a Dark Terror, which was gainier and a bit smoother-sounding. First gig with it, I couldn't hear myself (it was backline only), so I experimented through the first couple of songs - turning the gain down a bit helped massively, it cut through more without any actual increase in volume (and still sounded more than gainy enough).

 

[torchlord]

I agree on having a cab on stage.

Problem becomes when they wanna put all the amps in a line right w drums or even in front like if they are backlining 3 or 4 bands. the drummer might not hear that too well if a closed back cab is pointing out towards the crowd that is in front of them. Some sort of monitor for drums is ideal but presents other obstacles.

In that case I'd likely have a second cab. My amp has multiple outputs with 2x 8 ohm, 1x16 ohm and 1x4 ohm. Som cabs can slave another cab if the ohm of both cab's don't exceed your amps output.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Unless you're playing places with really good stage fills you should have some sort of speaker on stage even if you're going direct. You might be perfectly audible wherever the sound board is, but people nearer the stage or under the mains can't hear you.

 

[spawnofthesith]

More gain = more compression so that could be part of it when switching from clean to dirty

I agree with TedEH that its not really a "volume war" thing between a guitarist and drummer...I'd set your volumes accordingly to him

Seems like a simple solution without changing too much on the POD could just be a volume pedal though

 

[Screamingdaisy]

Unless you're playing places with really good stage fills you should have some sort of speaker on stage even if you're going direct. You might be perfectly audible wherever the sound board is, but people nearer the stage or under the mains can't hear you.

This is a good point.

A lot of the venues I play aren't set up for modelling. There's no center fill as they expect the stage volume to bleed into FOH. When the drums are the only instrument on stage that's actually making noise it can throw off the mix towards the front of the stage.