Heavy/big guitar tones?

[fanir]

www.soundclick.com/asmelodrama

First song.

I've been thinking of doing a demo for my band and this is the first song we wrote, actually, we wrote it in like 2005 but didn't manage to finish it up. It's still not *quite* finish though.

Firstly, I'm using dfh ezdrummer for the drums, used my dad's DIY edrum. Added a slight reverb to the snare. Vocals are recorded through a decent audio technica mic. Its a little off so ignore the vocals.

Now, on to guitars, I'm using my Ibanez RG 470DX through my Line6 Toneport and Guitar Rig 2 software version. I have it panned left/right 80%. Used a high pass filter like suggested from some of the members here. Bass, I'm using an Ibanez too also through Guitar Rig patch.

I'm using Sonar 6 as my host [got it off my friend's dad, simply fabulous grab].

My DAW's quite good enough for recording. Windows XP Home SP2, 512MB Ram and a wholatta gigs hdd space.

As you can see, my guitar's tone all too muddy and annoyingly treblish. It also lacks the in your face feel like most metal songs, sounds weak. Any ideas?

Also, any tips for eZdrummer? The only thing I did to improve its punchyness was to increase the db, still lacks the punch though.

Hopefully, I'll be able to solve the above problems and be happy again.

Thanks and have a nice day!

 

[Hexer]

you have 2 guitar-tracks on there, right?

for a big guitarsound try double-tracking the guitars. pretty much everyone does this in metal. simply do the following:
if you have 2 guitarparts, record each part 2 times with slightly different sounds (different guitar, different cab, different amp, different settings, something like this). play very thight so the 2 same tracks sound as much as possible like 1 guitar when played together.
pan the 4 tracks 100% and 80% or something like that (try how it sounds best to you)

 

[fanir]

Hey man, thanks for that response, I think I'll try that, but instead of redoing the take, is it possible if I just offset it a little here and there?

Thanks again.

 

[Drew]

Hey man, thanks for that response, I think I'll try that, but instead of redoing the take, is it possible if I just offset it a little here and there?

Thanks again.

Doesn't sound nearly as good.

 

[thedownside]

Hey man, thanks for that response, I think I'll try that, but instead of redoing the take, is it possible if I just offset it a little here and there?

Thanks again.

you can do that, but it wont sound the same, or... right. i'd really take the time and record it a second time.

 

[DSS3]

you have 2 guitar-tracks on there, right?

for a big guitarsound try double-tracking the guitars. pretty much everyone does this in metal. simply do the following:
if you have 2 guitarparts, record each part 2 times with slightly different sounds (different guitar, different cab, different amp, different settings, something like this). play very thight so the 2 same tracks sound as much as possible like 1 guitar when played together.
pan the 4 tracks 100% and 80% or something like that (try how it sounds best to you)

I'd recommend this in a slightly different fashion...

Use the same guitar, same cabinet/mic, and a different amp, or different settings. Switching up guitars leads to tuning problems later down the road (no two guitars will ever be intonated exactly the same), and it's easier just to stick with one cabinet.

Definitely play very tight.

I find panning -100/-80/80/100 can sound too cluttered... lately I've been in love with -100/-100/100/100.

 

[thedownside]

I find panning -100/-80/80/100 can sound too cluttered... lately I've been in love with -100/-100/100/100.

i've tried all of those, i actually like to go either way (depending on the song) but have the level of the second one for each side dropped down to about 75% of the main guitar for that side. it fattens it up, but doesnt get loose or mushy sounding at all. all use all the same gear and settings, except the guitar 'in the back' i'll use lower treble and more bass. fattens it up and the front guitar gives it the bite.

 

[bulb]

man two tracks is all ya need!

 

[Ryan]

man two tracks is all ya need!

i have one left and one right. works fizzine.

 

[Drew]

I do the same too, and I actually often use either similar or identical amp settings while double tracking. My needs are sort of different, though - it sounds "bigger" with contrasting tones, no question, but for instrumental rock where your guitar is your main melodic voice, you don't necessarily WANT huge rhythm guitar tones, as you need space for your lead.

 

[YYZ2112]

but for instrumental rock where your guitar is your main melodic voice, you don't necessarily WANT huge rhythm guitar tones, as you need space for your lead.

Excellent point...

 

[fanir]

Thanks guys, really appreciate the advice given.

Anyway, have you guys heard of the band Protest The Hero? I quite like their heavy tone. Check the song Blindfolds Aside at their myspace. www.myspace.com/protestthehero.

Maybe I'm not getting good tones because of Guitar Rig 2? I can't afford a real amp and I'm living in an apartment where the neighbours are really a pain in the ass. I've compared my mixes to ones here and you guys blow mine out of the water.

I'm thinking of getting the expansion packs for my Toneport so I could try out the patches here.

What do you guys recommend I do?

 

[Korbain]

lol wow different settings, amps etc? why? just use the same shit but record 2 tracks to add more texture to the sound. Just fill it out and make it sound more full. No need to fuck with settings on the amp, its also in the mix to make it sound phat! If anything just use a different effect or make anther punchy riff to go over the other, or one track louder or quiter (in the mix or turn down the amp). Thats my oppinion anyway...

 

[g3rmanium]

man two tracks is all ya need!

In fact I've been recording just one take in stereo for a long time. Once you get the stereo image correct, it's brilliant.

 

[Rick]

I do the same too, and I actually often use either similar or identical amp settings while double tracking. My needs are sort of different, though - it sounds "bigger" with contrasting tones, no question, but for instrumental rock where your guitar is your main melodic voice, you don't necessarily WANT huge rhythm guitar tones, as you need space for your lead.

Wait, when do you record anything, Drew?

Oh yeah, for that album that Bigfoot's producing with the Loch Ness Monster mixing?

 

[Tombinator]

You can also have a splitter to two amps and cabs, and mic each one up. Try different microphones as each will have their own frequency responses, sensitivities, sweet spots and colors. Not to mention preamps as well. You can also isolate each with baffles and blankets, if you don't want bleed. That's unless you want more of an open aesthetic, you can put them in separate rooms. This way, you'll only have to play it through once.

Also, now with all the plug-ins on the market for digital audio workstations and recording programs; you can just copy a track, EQ each one differently and run it through different amp simulator settings. This can be done in pre or post.

Just some more food for thought and tricks of the trade.

 

[bulb]

nah but its not eq that gives the double tracked sound, its the slight flaws in time, the nanoseconds of difference, the slight nuances and the fact that it is impossible for you to play EXACTLY the same way twice, thats why you have to do two takes..

 

[Chris]

Chiming in to say the song kicks ass. Vocals aren't my thing, but nice playing.

 

[DSS3]

lol wow different settings, amps etc? why? just use the same shit but record 2 tracks to add more texture to the sound. Just fill it out and make it sound more full. No need to fuck with settings on the amp, its also in the mix to make it sound phat! If anything just use a different effect or make anther punchy riff to go over the other, or one track louder or quiter (in the mix or turn down the amp). Thats my oppinion anyway...

You really haven't spent much time recording/mixing, have you?

Recording more riffs, adding a ton of eq, etc, etc, will NEVER get you the same tone as blending two amps.

And please ditch that "its also in themix to make it sound phat!" train of thought. You can't polish a turd, and you really need to get things sounding killer in the room before recording ANYTHING, let alone eq'ing it to hell. If it sounds shit to begin with, it'll sound shit in the end.

nah but its not eq that gives the double tracked sound, its the slight flaws in time, the nanoseconds of difference, the slight nuances and the fact that it is impossible for you to play EXACTLY the same way twice, thats why you have to do two takes..

That, and people seem to forget that if you pan the same exact performance hard left/right, it cancels to center.

 

[bulb]

basically entierly tr00

remember guys, if there really was a way to emulate double tracking without it sounding like arse, you know that it would be like the most bestest selling plugin evar, until that comes out, keep practicing!!

as for layering, that can be fun depending on what kind of sound you are going for, but personally i have found that the biggest guitar tones i have gotten have just been from a set of double tracked guitars panned 100% left and right