Help: best laptop for music production

[Chip]

I do some very amateur level audio stuff, so I'm here mainly out of curiosity. I just bought an M1 MacBook Pro that's due to arrive next week and wanted to hear what people are saying. I've been on a 2016 12" MacBook, so even the screen is going to be a step up!

FWIW, the USB-C to USB-A dongle was an annoyance at first, but I'm used to it now. I'm not familiar with Windows laptops, but the Retina displays on the Macs are extremely sharp and may be easier to use in a 13" format than people expect. (Just guessing here.) I'm sure Apple has made the larger-screen MB models a high priority if people can wait.

But I really wanted to point out two things: the new M1 MacBook has only two USB-C ports whereas the top of the Intel models had 4, and the new Mac will support fewer external displays. (I'm not sure how many, as this is a non-issue for me. I've never used more than one.) The rumor is that the upcoming M1X models will support more ports and more displays.

The second thing I wanted to share is a website I've found that lists software that runs natively on M1, that runs on Rosetta - the interpreter (is that the right word?) that enables Intel software to run on the M1 - and software that has issues. It's based on user reports, so maybe not 100% reliable, but def. worth checking out:

Is Apple Silicon Ready?

 

[p0ke]

I do some very amateur level audio stuff, so I'm here mainly out of curiosity. I just bought an M1 MacBook Pro that's due to arrive next week and wanted to hear what people are saying. I've been on a 2016 12" MacBook, so even the screen is going to be a step up!

FWIW, the USB-C to USB-A dongle was an annoyance at first, but I'm used to it now. I'm not familiar with Windows laptops, but the Retina displays on the Macs are extremely sharp and may be easier to use in a 13" format than people expect. (Just guessing here.) I'm sure Apple has made the larger-screen MB models a high priority if people can wait.

But I really wanted to point out two things: the new M1 MacBook has only two USB-C ports whereas the top of the Intel models had 4, and the new Mac will support fewer external displays. (I'm not sure how many, as this is a non-issue for me. I've never used more than one.) The rumor is that the upcoming M1X models will support more ports and more displays.

The second thing I wanted to share is a website I've found that lists software that runs natively on M1, that runs on Rosetta - the interpreter (is that the right word?) that enables Intel software to run on the M1 - and software that has issues. It's based on user reports, so maybe not 100% reliable, but def. worth checking out:

Is Apple Silicon Ready?

Please report when you get it! I really want one because it sounds awesome on paper, but I'm sceptic about the Rosetta stuff. I mean, stuff like Quemu is able to run x86 code on ARM, but that's super slow as far as I know. We were pondering getting those for work machines, but then figured we'll stick with Intel for now and wait for the next generation. I've been told I'm getting an almost new Intel MBP soon anyway, as we have a spare one and I'm currently running a 2017 MBP (basically the oldest machine we have at work).

 

[Richard_Aaron]

I really love my Macbook Pro I bought last year but I received an inheritance that allowed me to build my studio. If you use Apollo Interfaces then you get even more Processor Power, which honestly I didn't need with my Macbook Pro being maxed out on specs. I also got a Scarlet OctoPre I hooked into the Apollo x8 giving me 16 inputs for Drum mics. I'm running Logic Pro X with Ableton in Rewire. I use my iPad Pro as a Wireless Second Screen which I put the Apollo x8's Faders on, allowing me to use my fingers for the faders on the iPad Pro's Touch Screen. I have M-Audio BX8 Monitors which are really amazing imo. Definitely a high budget setup but I couldn't be happier with it, even though looking back I realize I went way overboard. Pics are before I upgraded to BX8 monitors:

 

[Nitro]

My vote would be for Mac. But if you must go Windows, I do like the Dell XPS laptops.

I only do pretty basic recording, but I use my MacBook Pro for work (IT) and recording, and my high end Windows desktop for gaming only. My Windows PC has WAY more power than my MacBook, but for audio work it's the Mac every time. My experience of audio on Windows is pretty poor - way too much time fighting Windows settings, fiddling with drivers etc. I'm sure if you have a Windows machine dedicated to audio production, and don't change/update anything without testing, then it can be good experience. But for a general PC, every time Windows updates or drivers update all the audio settings go out the window and you need to spend hours fighting it again.

 

[Nitro]

That's total FUD. AMD Zen 2 has around 40ns extra latency at worst - that's 0.00004ms, so it's going to have exactly zero impact on audio latency. Zen 3, with the different CCX design will have more less latency, without the slower cross-CCX spikes that Zen 2 can get.

Other Windows drivers will have more impact than anything else on the latency of the system - I've seen a Windows machine where a _keyboard_ driver was adding spikes of *500ms* of latency - now that is VERY noticeable! (And for the record it was Intel CPU!).

I'm surprised this is already to the 3rd page and almost nothing has been said about inherent latency in different chipsets.

Whatever system you choose, I'd advise to make it an Intel-based one, no matter what OS you like (Windows, Mac, Linux). I don't have any experience with the M1 chip (yet).

AMD chipsets, however, STILL have a terrible inherently bad latency--do the tests yourself! Download DPC Latency Checker (by thesycon) or LatencyMon. Even an old Pentium 4 system has better latency for audio purposes than the newest chipsets that are paired with the Ryzen CPUs. Latency is not worse on systems "just because it's a laptop" either.

It mainly has to do with:
- What chipset you have (and in turn, what CPU--but a faster CPU will not bring down the latency, unless software is bogging something down)
- Whether you have wifi and if it's enabled
- What other devices you have in device manager--USB stuff, touchscreen stuff, disable what you don't need (or even disable stuff you do need, just to test with DPC latency checker and see if that's the problem hardware)
- What software you're running, to the extent of: drivers, audio software, and is anything peaking out your CPUs/other busses on the system

 

[InHiding]

So I have recently started using an external monitor with my laptop. I have a laptop with an Intel GPU and an nVidia one. The nVidia is always used when the external monitor is plugged. This lead to a significant reduction in CPU load (at least I haven't figured out any other explanation for why the CPU load is so much smaller now when using the same plugins). Anyways, this reduced CPU load allows me to use significantly lower latencies without hiccups. Posting this for future generations

 

[Peg Dizzler]

That's total FUD. AMD Zen 2 has around 40ns extra latency at worst - that's 0.00004ms, so it's going to have exactly zero impact on audio latency. Zen 3, with the different CCX design will have more less latency, without the slower cross-CCX spikes that Zen 2 can get.

Other Windows drivers will have more impact than anything else on the latency of the system - I've seen a Windows machine where a _keyboard_ driver was adding spikes of *500ms* of latency - now that is VERY noticeable! (And for the record it was Intel CPU!).

I've witnessed the same thing, any random device with poorly written drivers (esecpially USB stuff or wifi) can cause major latency issues.

But for the AMD Zen 2, did you get those latency numbers from DPC Checker? The point I'm making is that AMD's chipsets have the worst latency around on the market, the second worst being any chipset paired with an Intel Atom. This has been tested on multiple systems with DPC checker and pretty much all devices disabled; it's just inherently bad for audio production. It's not FUD, it's poor chipset design (at least in comparison to Intel). Great for gaming though.

 

[brector]

So I have recently started using an external monitor with my laptop. I have a laptop with an Intel GPU and an nVidia one. The nVidia is always used when the external monitor is plugged. This lead to a significant reduction in CPU load (at least I haven't figured out any other explanation for why the CPU load is so much smaller now when using the same plugins). Anyways, this reduced CPU load allows me to use significantly lower latencies without hiccups. Posting this for future generations

That would make sense because you are offloading video to a dedicated GPU.

 

[Nitro]

I've witnessed the same thing, any random device with poorly written drivers (esecpially USB stuff or wifi) can cause major latency issues.

But for the AMD Zen 2, did you get those latency numbers from DPC Checker? The point I'm making is that AMD's chipsets have the worst latency around on the market, the second worst being any chipset paired with an Intel Atom. This has been tested on multiple systems with DPC checker and pretty much all devices disabled; it's just inherently bad for audio production. It's not FUD, it's poor chipset design (at least in comparison to Intel). Great for gaming though.

Yes, I did get those number off DPC latency checker, plus other sources looking into the DPC latency. And while you are correct that DPC latency is higher on AMD CPUs, it so many orders of magnitude below where latency impacts audio that it's a non event.

 

[Ataraxia2320]

So I have recently started using an external monitor with my laptop. I have a laptop with an Intel GPU and an nVidia one. The nVidia is always used when the external monitor is plugged. This lead to a significant reduction in CPU load (at least I haven't figured out any other explanation for why the CPU load is so much smaller now when using the same plugins). Anyways, this reduced CPU load allows me to use significantly lower latencies without hiccups. Posting this for future generations

I found this also made a difference. Maybe its just all in the mind, but kudos.

 

[Sebski]

Thanks everyone for all the discussion. Plenty of useful nuggets here. Don't judge me but I went for the XPS 15 in the end as there were some solid deals on the outlet store plus Amex offers you could use on top. Couldn't find any macbooks with those specs anywhere near this price too.

 

[Ataraxia2320]

Thanks everyone for all the discussion. Plenty of useful nuggets here. Don't judge me but I went for the XPS 15 in the end as there were some solid deals on the outlet store plus Amex offers you could use on top. Couldn't find any macbooks with those specs anywhere near this price too.

As long as youre happy that's all that matters. What specs did you get?

 

[Sebski]

As long as youre happy that's all that matters. What specs did you get?

Went for the 2019 model with i7 and 16GB ram. Think an i7 chip will suffice?