Help me pick a new audio interface.

[Blytheryn]

So I realized last night that my Scarlett 2i2 2nd gen. just will not cut it for tracking with my NDSP plugins anymore. I am getting far too much hiss and unwanted noise in the signal, and after I remove them my guitar tone is completely dead and lifeless.

So, either I go for a Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen, a Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen(I really don’t need the second input as I just track guitars) or I make what feels like a quantum leap and spring for a UAD Apollo solo.

Is the quality of the DI that I get from the Apollo worth the cost? I know that the many plugins and the UAD framework you get are also of great value.

 

[eclecto-acoustic]

If you want to use your NDSP plugins still and are willing to pay UAD money, get an RME Babyface Pro. You can get the FS version brand new, or pick up a used non-FS version. They are going to be functionally the same for your uses.

For that you'll get really low latency, really good long-term support, and very stable drivers. It's a dynamite interface for many reasons, low latency guitar playing being one of them.

The real benefit of going UAD is in their ecosystem. If you like their plugins and are willing to pay the premium to be in their walled garden, you'll be able to utilize the onboard DSP. But remember, that DSP doesn't help you with any non-UAD plugins.

 

[Blytheryn]

If you want to use your NDSP plugins still and are willing to pay UAD money, get an RME Babyface Pro. You can get the FS version brand new, or pick up a used non-FS version. They are going to be functionally the same for your uses.

For that you'll get really low latency, really good long-term support, and very stable drivers. It's a dynamite interface for many reasons, low latency guitar playing being one of them.

The real benefit of going UAD is in their ecosystem. If you like their plugins and are willing to pay the premium to be in their walled garden, you'll be able to utilize the onboard DSP. But remember, that DSP doesn't help you with any non-UAD plugins.

Thanks for that insight! I didn’t know that you could only benefit from the DSP if you used their plugins. (I’m not opposed to this by any means) but it is a good shout.

I’ll definitely check out the baby face pro. What’s FS/non FS?

 

[eclecto-acoustic]

There are minor spec differences between the two. Think of it as an iterative improvement.

The kinda big news with the FS version was the introduction of better clock/anti-jitter performance, and they shaved off another 6 samples of latency at the conversion stage.

Again, for your purposes, they'll be functionally the same. The FS will cost more brand new. The truth is that even the original Babyface, if you could find one in good shape, would still be a great interface. RME builds great stuff and supports it really well.

No affiliation other than being a happy BF Pro owner. I run NDSP and S-Gear among others with it at sub-5 ms round trip latencies no problem. Windows 10 laptop, Core i7 9750H, 16 gigs of RAM.

 

[Blytheryn]

There are minor spec differences between the two. Think of it as an iterative improvement.

The kinda big news with the FS version was the introduction of better clock/anti-jitter performance, and they shaved off another 6 samples of latency at the conversion stage.

Again, for your purposes, they'll be functionally the same. The FS will cost more brand new.

Wow! Thanks for the heads up on that. I’ll keep a look out and see which one I can get s better deal on.

 

[eclecto-acoustic]

I updated my post as you were responding, just in case you missed some.

 

[Winspear]

I really can't discourage you enough from chasing an upgrade to solve noise issues @Blytheryn - I may be wrong but I'd put money on you ending up with no improvement.
I can't recommend a pro/sumer unit like UAD RME etc enough for their driver stability and latency improvements etc - they are very nice. But Your interface absolutely should not be the culprit of any noise concerns.

Certainly, tracking metal guitar DI at a computer is noise hell and has plagued me for a long time, on multiple high end interfaces no differently. It's probably EMI noise.
-Position your computer far away from the guitar/stand away from it when tracking
-Try turning off certain lights and appliances and see if it makes a difference
-Check your playing position, body rotation - there should be a quiet angle
-Noise removal and gating on the DI pre-ampsim (with the distortion activated to make your work audible), with some heavy tight peak EQ cuts at the worst ringing frequencies and perhaps a subtle lowpass filter. Don't try to remove the noise post-distortion - only regular amp hiss should be treated there.

 

[Blytheryn]

I really can't discourage you enough from chasing an upgrade to solve noise issues @Blytheryn - I may be wrong but I'd put money on you ending up with no improvement.
I can't recommend a pro/sumer unit like UAD RME etc enough for their driver stability and latency improvements etc - they are very nice. But Your interface absolutely should not be the culprit of any noise concerns.

Certainly, tracking metal guitar DI at a computer is noise hell and has plagued me for a long time, on multiple high end interfaces no differently. It's probably EMI noise.
-Position your computer far away from the guitar/stand away from it when tracking
-Try turning off certain lights and appliances and see if it makes a difference
-Check your playing position, body rotation - there should be a quiet angle
-Noise removal and gating on the DI pre-ampsim (with the distortion activated to make your work audible), with some heavy tight peak EQ cuts at the worst ringing frequencies and perhaps a subtle lowpass filter. Don't try to remove the noise post-distortion - only regular amp hiss should be treated there.

Hey Tom! I know, I feared that may be the issue, and I tested that today, by facing away from the computer, with all the lights off, and my Macbook on battery power and I didn’t get any better results. I’ll try all this again with the DI EQ, and see if it garners any better results.

here’s a raw recording of my guitar tone. It’s especially audible when I trem pick diads and other chords, and completely sucks out all the fun of playing.

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/YGEmG33qjgh5RGhM9

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

Yes, I don't get all the people blaming their tone on their interface, currently I'm using a Helix LT for recording guitar DI/amped but before that I used a 1st gen Scarlett 2i4 and I don't think that it was bad at all. Like if you wanted to, any changes in the signal you can compensate with EQ or the amp itself if it bothers you so much, but it has NEVER bothered me. It has to be extreme for it not to be good enough, like when you're 12 and you plug in the guitar in the headphone mic input trying to record some tracks with the guitar...

 

[Blytheryn]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h4o8n5b28zusmcw/AAApZz4sZhgfKJmP9HyWWn-ca?dl=0

Here is a DI of a riff of mine. My input gain is at 0, and my pickups are a good half a cm from the strings.

 

[Drew]

Yes, I don't get all the people blaming their tone on their interface, currently I'm using a Helix LT for recording guitar DI/amped but before that I used a 1st gen Scarlett 2i4 and I don't think that it was bad at all. Like if you wanted to, any changes in the signal you can compensate with EQ or the amp itself if it bothers you so much, but it has NEVER bothered me. It has to be extreme for it not to be good enough, like when you're 12 and you plug in the guitar in the headphone mic input trying to record some tracks with the guitar...

Better interfaces detinitely do provide better results, in part with better preamps/in some cases DI channels, and better digital conversion. These differences are generally pretty subtle on invididual tracks, a little less so as you begin to stack tracks...

...but, also, even a fairly entry level interface these days is, bigger picture, pretty good, and as long as you're not doing anything stupid from a workflow standpoint - tracking pretty hot rather than -12-18db for exmaple is going to get you into trouble a lot faster on budget stuff than really pro stuff - you should be able to get great results out of a "budget" modern interface these days.

I'm multitasking on a video call but will listen to these clips once I'm off.

 

[Winspear]

You know, I don't wonder if we are sometimes too critical of our own conditions - I was expecting much worse from your post but both the recording and the DI seem absolutely 100% fine to me, I can't hear any noise over the top or in the split second before and after you start playing, running that through my own Neural plugins on a high gain setting.
I totally sympathize with noise being annoying, I've had it really bad and it's a huge factor of why I very rarely play plugged in these days. But..I'm not hearing any here strangely, even on headphones. Anyone else? Am I crazy/deaf? I don't have any recordings to hand right now but in my own experience I often had high pitched whines and all sorts audible even over the top of the guitar.

 

[Winspear]

I guess the simple question is - are you talking about noise that's there when you're not playing, like I initially thought you were? Or just some high end unpleasantness in the tone itself? I see no evidence of what I call noise (what you'd use a gate for) in these clips

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

Yeah, it sounds fine to me as well. I don't hear anything crazy. I also compared it to some of my Helix DI tracks and it sounds okay. I'm the one that gets crazy sometimes lol, because in my place where I live there is no electrical ground, so when I'm not touching a metal part on my guitar, it makes a pretty bad buzzing noise, but when I have my hands on it the noise goes away and I can record fine for the most part...

 

[Blytheryn]

I guess the simple question is - are you talking about noise that's there when you're not playing, like I initially thought you were? Or just some high end unpleasantness in the tone itself? I see no evidence of what I call noise (what you'd use a gate for) in these clips

You know, I don't wonder if we are sometimes too critical of our own conditions - I was expecting much worse from your post but both the recording and the DI seem absolutely 100% fine to me, I can't hear any noise over the top or in the split second before and after you start playing, running that through my own Neural plugins on a high gain setting.
I totally sympathize with noise being annoying, I've had it really bad and it's a huge factor of why I very rarely play plugged in these days. But..I'm not hearing any here strangely, even on headphones. Anyone else? Am I crazy/deaf? I don't have any recordings to hand right now but in my own experience I often had high pitched whines and all sorts audible even over the top of the guitar.

so you guys don’t hear that crazy sizzle/hiss in the first clip during the playing? Or it’s not overly sharp unpleasant? It’s part of the tone. Every time I cut it out in post with dee cuts (needs to be at least -30b) it leaves my tone completely gimped.

 

[Winspear]

I'd say absolutely fine as far as a base tone goes. Not to say professional recording in post wouldn't involve some drastic surgical EQ from there (as it often does in general) or that such a thing is easy to do well. But yeah I'm not hearing any 'issues' here. I'd certainly say nothing/very little to be gained by higher quality interface pre's, as mentioned by Drew differences are subtle (less so when stacked, but still). Seems here you are talking about pickup+tone combination and the resulting resonant peaks that you are finding unpleasant (I do hear one in the soundcloud clip with your tone and drums, but nothing crazy), which is something that will never come down to subtle differences in interface inputs I think.

 

[Winspear]

I guess I'd say take the Soundcloud clips same tone, sweep a few tight peak EQs to find the ringing, bring them down some but not the 30dB you mentioned that wrecks the tone, upload and see how we think that sounds.
Remember you can make up for lost brightness from ringing peak removal, by boosting subtle wide curves on areas that do sound pleasant.

 

[Drew]

Hey Tom! I know, I feared that may be the issue, and I tested that today, by facing away from the computer, with all the lights off, and my Macbook on battery power and I didn’t get any better results. I’ll try all this again with the DI EQ, and see if it garners any better results.

here’s a raw recording of my guitar tone. It’s especially audible when I trem pick diads and other chords, and completely sucks out all the fun of playing.

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/YGEmG33qjgh5RGhM9

I mean, that's not the sort of tone I go for at all, but listening to that it's not like I'm hearing anything especially wrong with it.

There's an extremely pronounced pick attack - Black Winters, I assume, from the title? And I guess there's a little bit of buzziness to the high end but not in an overt way or anything, just sounds like the buzziness you often get from a close-mic'd cab. Maybe try a few different IRs and see if it changes?

 

[Blytheryn]

I guess I'd say take the Soundcloud clips same tone, sweep a few tight peak EQs to find the ringing, bring them down some but not the 30dB you mentioned that wrecks the tone, upload and see how we think that sounds.
Remember you can make up for lost brightness from ringing peak removal, by boosting subtle wide curves on areas that do sound pleasant.

I’ll see if I have that project anywhere, but I can track a new one in that case. That exact resonance frequency is prevalent across all my recordings.

I mean, that's not the sort of tone I go for at all, but listening to that it's not like I'm hearing anything especially wrong with it.

There's an extremely pronounced pick attack - Black Winters, I assume, from the title? And I guess there's a little bit of buzziness to the high end but not in an overt way or anything, just sounds like the buzziness you often get from a close-mic'd cab. Maybe try a few different IRs and see if it changes?

Yeah, I’m using Black Winters with a Jazz III pick. I’ll follow Tom and your advice and report back.

 

[Matt08642]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8g1i7o9nkhkclrt/Omega BATUSHKACORE.wav?dl=0

This is through NeuralDSP Omega Granophyre + OwnHammer V30 IRs, but sounds good to me.

As for interfaces, I highly recommend checking out the Motu M2/M4 as well! https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M4--motu-m4-4x4-usb-c-audio-interface