Help with modes!

[includao]

whats the difference between the derivative approach in modes, when you build the the modes from different root notes within the parent major scale, and the
parallel approach when you learn to see all of the modes from the SAME root?

2: Building the C Dorian (which starts in the D and mantain the same intervals)

Then I realize, OK. It's the same intervals and notes but now it stablished the D has the tonal center.

1: I compared it to the D major scale which has the same tonal center(?) but different interval pattern. Someone said to me to compare the intervals and i've got this: 1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6, 7b.

OK. I can do the same derivative process with F Major:

1. C - Ionian
2. D - Dorian
3. E - Phrygian
4. F - Lydian
5. G - Mixolydian
6. A - Aeolian
7. B - Locrian

I get:

1. F - Ionian
2. G - Dorian
3. A - Phrygian
4. A# - Lydian
5. C - Mixolydian
6. D - Aeolian
7. E - Locrian

I could do the same with G major:

1. G - Ionian
2. A - Dorian
3. B - Phrygian
4. C - Lydian
5. D - Mixolydian
6. E - Aeolian
7. F# - Locrian


So, OK. What's the point to verify the intervalic difference between C Major Dorian and the D major scale? When am I going to use this?

1. Ionian - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
2. Dorian - 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8 (the pattern i've verified )
3. Phrygian - 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8
4. Lydian - 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 8
5. Mixolydian - 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 8
6. Aeolian - 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8
7. Locrian - 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 8

How Am I suppose to know the point and the different between this parallel relation or derivation?

 

[distressed_romeo]

Both ways are fine. It's just a question of what's faster when you're thinking on your feet and visualising the positions under your fingers during a solo.

Mick Goodrick's book, The Advancing Guitarist has a very detailed chapter on parellel/derivative thinking regarding the modes. Recommend it.

 

[lachrymose]

Are you just wondering if its easier to remember the whole/half steps of EACH mode as opposed to playing C major, then moving the tonic upto D?

From a piano perspective i'd go with the derivative approach considering once you have the accidentals memorized, you can just change the tonic.

guitar however i found myself memorizing the whole & half steps of scales.

 

[distressed_romeo]

If you really get your scale shapes drilled, after a while you may find you subconciously switch between the two approaches depending on what you're playing. Yet another wierd aspect of getting used to the guitar, but it can be a big advantage if you're soloing over tricky chord changes, as you have more mental 'sign posts' on the fretboard as the tonic note changes.

I agree with Lachrymose; due to the fact that each scale is fingered differently on the piano means that it is generally easier to use a derivative approach to thinking about modes. Guitar has the advantage that you don't have to learn so many physical shapes, but as you've already spotted, that can create a new set of difficulties.

As I said, check out Mick Goodrick's book, as he explains this much more systematically and articulately than I can manage (actually, every guitarist should own it, as it's pretty mind-expanding).

 

[includao]

So, both approaches are valid. But what about the effects? The parallel approach is useful for what? It seems that the parallel constructed Dorian scale has a more impact or stablished tonal theme.



Mr. Goodchord’s Almanac of Guitar Voice-Leading or the The Advancing Guitarist?

 

[distressed_romeo]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. To my mind both approaches are just different ways of visualising the same thing...

 

[kmanick]

Check out Gambales "Mode Mystery No more" DVD
It shows you formulas for figuring out modes and how to recognise them
when you hear them. really helpful DVD to have.

 

[includao]

AHAHHAA. FINALLY!

THE derivate approach has the same result from the parallel approach

Derivative:

1. C - Ionian
2. D - Dorian
3. E - Phrygian
4. F - Lydian
5. G - Mixolydian
6. A - Aeolian
7. B - Locrian

2. D - Dorian
Using the same interval pattern and starting on the D root note as tonal center I get: D E F G A B C D

which is the same result that I can get using the intervalic formula I can discover comparing the results.

Using the D major scale: D E F# G A B C#, knowing that to get the Dorian mode from this D major I can apply the discovered pattern: 2. Dorian - 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8:

D E F G A B C D

same result!

 

[lachrymose]

were you confusing D Dorian with D Major or something?

 

[includao]

were you confusing D Dorian with D Major or something?

yes!