Help with purchasing my first tube amp!

[Sanenomore729]

Hey guys! First time post here, but I check in often for tips and reviews, but now I could use some help.

I've decided on buying a new amp (and my first tube amp!). I've been playing out of a Marshall 2x12 and its not really cutting it for me anymore. When I want to be smooth, I sacrifice gain, and when I want to go heavy it just gets fuzzy and I sacrifice clarity. I've been hitting up every music store in the Massachusetts area and I think I've got a rough idea of what I want but could use some help to narrow it down:

I mainly play along the progressive/death metal genre, as well as fusion a la Guthrie Govan/Rick Graham/Tom Quayle (I'm NO WHERE near as good as those guys but I'm trying !). I play an Ibanez RG1527 with Bareknuckle Nailbombs (they are AWESOME, if you have the means, I highly recommend getting them). I'm not much of a pedal user, I usually just plug straight in but I may end up getting a delay, EQ, or compressor if need be. For my Metal rhythm stuffs I'm looking for an amp that can of course handle the low B and keep it tight and articulate the low notes really well. I don't want the amp to just go "BOWBOWBOW" every time a play a note below an E! For leads I want the smoothest, liquidy-est tone. I've tried out the Dual Rec. and from what I could tell its quite fuzzy, which is exactly what I'm NOT looking for (or maybe I was just using it wrong!). I'm looking more for something between the Mark V lead and the Bogner Alchemist lead but with a bit more br00tality for my shred
At the same time, I fell IN LOVE with the Bogner Ecstasy101. It is PERFECT for my fusiony-lead stuff as well as the rhythms, every channel was absolutely hypnotizing. But at the same time, I don't think it could cut it for the more heavy stuff.

So after reading all that back I realize I am asking for quite a lot: an amp that can get that liquidy smoothness of the Ecstasy/Alchemist/Mark V but be able to get brutal and go heavy when I need and to keep the low notes articulated. Maybe its time I start investing into pedals, but before I go out and spend 4 grand on the Ecstasy and start buying pedals I may not need, I thought I may as well throw all this out there and see what you guys think!

Thanks a lot guys, I know this a lot for my first post and I really appreciate it!

 

[tacotiklah]

Just a suggestion, but I've heard that the ENGL Savage 100 is pretty diverse and can get you both. Again, this is just hearsay (no ENGL dealers where I live for me to test this out) but I'll pass it along anyways.


Edit:
I should add that I've heard clips online of the Savage but I haven't heard anyone doing fusion stuff on it. It does work well for classic rock, classic metal, death metal and the like. The leads I've heard are pretty smooth, but they were using different guitars so see if you can try one out for yourself.

 

[Leuchty]

I think maybe an ENGL Invader might be worth looking into.

 

[budda]

The XTC will get heavy, dude. If you can afford one, I'd go for that. And unless you're aware that mesa's EQ is all interactive, and that you don't want to use "standard" settings, then it probably wasn't dialed in properly..

I'm guessing you don't do fusion and prog death metal at the same time.

I'd also look into one of these: Peters Amplification

 

[robotsatemygma]

Sheesh, I thought my expectations were tough... HAHA!

Any who, it's awesome you've gone out and tried a bunch of amps and have a general idea of what you are aiming for.

Have you thought about building a rack system? Carvin/VHT/Mesa Boogie/Marshall power amp w/ an Engl SE or E530, Axe Fx, or Marshall JMP-1 for the preamp. Way more sophisticated then a simple head, but it'll give you plenty of options. Axe Fx with a tube power amp will bring you the most options.

Engl is known for their death metal tones, hands down they have nailed this category with just about everything they've put out. Their overdrive is just creamy and saturated and lovely. Avoid the Thunder, Screamer, and Fireball due to the shared eq. They're great amps (I owned the Thunder) with great tone but you have to do a bit of compromising to dial in some decent tones. Everyone so far has suggested Engl for a reason, they simply rock.

Have you thought about a Peavey 6505+, JSX, or a Triple XXX? Good amps for death metal and usable cleans, especially with FX. Many users slam the front end with a Maxon OD808 to tighten things up. I'm thinking this might be a good alternative as they're some of the best well built amps around.

Mesa Boogie Roadster might be an avenue worth pursuing or the Single Rectifier Tremoverb.

Any ways much food for thought and good luck!

 

[Sanenomore729]

Thanks for the speedy replies everyone!

I also played an ENGL powerball, and it looks badass but isn't exactly what I'm looking for. The rhythm and the lead were both a bit too fuzzy for me, not really what I'm looking for. However, I was in a store and had to keep it relatively down, maybe it shines out better when its jacked up lol
Is the Invader very different?

 

[budda]

You're in Boston - swing by The Axe Palace

also, if an amp is fuzzy, i'd try turning down the presence and gain and treble

 

[cradleofflames]

IMO the Axe FX will do all the amps everyone has recommended so far but without being so volume dependent.

 

[budda]

He needs 3 sounds - so why not get an amp that nails those 3 sounds, instead of a multi that will require another $600-$800 to get it to the same level.... with way more options than he'll ever use?

 

[Leuchty]

You're in Boston - swing by The Axe Palace

also, if an amp is fuzzy, i'd try turning down the presence and gain and treble

Good point.

Swing by Axe Palace. Talk to Nick (Zimbloth, on here) and buy a Fryette.

/thread.

 

[cradleofflames]

He says he loved the Ecstasy which runs around $3k. He could get an Axe standard and have all those sounds in addition to something better suited to the brutals like a VH4, Powerball, or 5150 all for half to two thirds of the price of the one amp.

 

[budda]

I'd take the Bogner - I don't need all those options.

 

[cradleofflames]

There are only 3 possible explanations for not choosing the Axe:

1. Simplicity
2. Opinion that current modeling isn't accurate enough
3. Name recognition

The 1st isn't much of an excuse unless one really only ever uses the channel switch on their amp. It's worth noting some of the time even that becomes more complicated than it has two.

For example: With an Ecstasy to go from a softer rhythm sound to extreme lead one must hit the button for channel 3 and the boost switch. Adding in a single effect compounds the problem. Say you have a delay or reverb in the FX loop, this same as above would be true but you'd also have to turn on the effects loop. With the Axe most amps and effects anybody would want to use are included and the simplest or most complicated sounds can all be switched with a single button.

The 2nd explanation is plausible at least. The 3rd seems ridiculous to me but usually ends up being the case.

I know several people who play out with an Axe every weekend and constantly get compliments on their tone and people asking what they're using. They explain how they prefer to take as much of their tone out of the hands of the "Live Sound Engineer" as possible. The two common come backs are that it doesn't sound like an amp in the room which is true, the second is "But a small rack doesn't look as cool as my head and cab." Usually they change their tune once they actually play it but when he says that they won't need their amps anymore they say, "but it's a _____" as if anyone besides themselves and other guitar players cares what their amp/cab or lack there of says on it.

Axe Standard is $1499, a Ground Control Pro is $400 but simple switching can be done with a lot less; a Behringer FCB-1010 is $150 for example. With the Ground Control Pro the total still comes to under $2,000. A new Ecstasy runs $3,600 and you have a hard time finding a used one for under $2,800 not including a cab that you incidentally don't need with the Axe.

 

[Sanenomore729]

Right now man I'm really looking for an actual amp. I've considered the Axe and I don't think its what I'm looking for right now. I'll definitely head on over to the Axe Palace this weekend though, it looks pretty awesome!

 

[budda]

Actually, to go from a soft rhythm to an extreme lead in your example COF, I'd hit 1 button to go from ch2 to ch3, and roll up my guitar's volume. That's it. I might even switch pickups.

simplicity is definitely a reason not to get an Axe. If you're some who loves to tweak to dial in their tone, then being given 10 different parameters just to tweak the EQ of your amp means you're going to spend more time tweaking than playing. I've spent time with an axe fx standard. It's a nice piece of gear, versatile as fuck - but 4 channels on a roadster gets me my 4 main tones, satisfies me just as well, and keeps me satisfied at home and in a band situation. The axe fx series are nice, but certainly not necessary.

 

[lateralus819]

I use a Laney GH50L and a Legacy, they both do heavy very well with some assistance. I boost both with a TS-9 and a SD-1 (not much from either but enough) Its AMAZINGLY clear and articulate....just some tthoughts...plus the laney can be had for $500 ish roughly used on ebay.

 

[cradleofflames]

I have never played a multichannel amp that I liked all of the channels. The Axe enabled me the week I had it (borrowed; I don't have quite enough cash compiled yet) to tweak a dozen sounds in my first two days that never needed any further tweaking. Tweaking the Axe is not like tweaking an Eventide, anybody that says it takes forever is either an idiot or not really listening.