How come some (or most?) seven players don't like TOMs with stop-tails?

[MaxOfMetal]

As far as flat-mount fixed bridges go, I'm really surprised by the complete and utter lack of better designs.

Even companies like Hipshot, Schaller, Gotoh, etc. make very nice, both visually and tonally, modern bass bridges, which are far more massive, adjustable, and visually appealing in many cases.

For instance, guitar fixed bridges:

Then here's what the same companies make for basses:

 

[ellengtrgrl]

I think you also need to realize that it comes down to personal preference - much of which can be based upon playing style. While I can tolerate floating bridges ala the Floyd, I prefer a fixed bridge, since I like to rest my hand on the bridge assembly. Doing that with Floyds, has a tendency to make them pull sharp, unless you really have the springs stiff, or lock the bridge down to the body. Besides, I hardly ever used the Floyds, or the Kahlers, on my guitars that had them.

 

[Shenaniganizer]

Oh, wow, I've never seen a recessed TOM before. So, if I do that, then the neck I'd build wouldn't have to have an angled headstock, would it? That looks really clean, and interesting.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Oh, wow, I've never seen a recessed TOM before. So, if I do that, then the neck I'd build wouldn't have to have an angled headstock, would it? That looks really clean, and interesting.

Angling the neck and headstock angle are two completely different things.

Though, to answer your question, if recessed properly, you don't have to angle the neck as extremely as if the TOM was not recessed.

 

[Shenaniganizer]

Oh.
I don't get it, then.

 

[Shenaniganizer]

Accidental double post.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Oh.
I don't get it, then.

This graphic should explain neck angle pretty well, via examples.

As for headstock angle:

As you can see the headstock being angled has zero bearing on the bridge.

 

[Shenaniganizer]

Awesome, thank you. So, with a recessed TOM, can I easily get away with a neck that has no angle?
And what does an angled headstock do, compared to a non-angled?

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Awesome, thank you. So, with a recessed TOM, can I easily get away with a neck that has no angle?
And what does an angled headstock do, compared to a non-angled?

Yes, if you recess the TOM properly, and give it enough clearance over the furrels then yes, you don't have to give the neck a dramatic angle.

As for the angled headstocks, many makers believe the added downward force on the nut is beneficial for tone, as well as eases some of the "pulling" force that's typically being applied to the headstock where it meets the neck. Though, there is nothing wrong with using a straight headstock, a lot of builders do.

Next time you go to a guitar shop, you should really take a look at guitars with TOM's as well as those with flat-mount bridges. Seeing, and feeling it in person will give you a far better perspective on what you'll want and need for your own build.

 

[TomParenteau]

I like the strings high off the body with a wraparound or a Floyd. It makes the posts longer, putting more force on the body. More pounds per square inch brings more of the the tonal character of the body into the overall sound of the guitar.

 

[Shenaniganizer]

Yes, if you recess the TOM properly, and give it enough clearance over the furrels then yes, you don't have to give the neck a dramatic angle.

As for the angled headstocks, many makers believe the added downward force on the nut is beneficial for tone, as well as eases some of the "pulling" force that's typically being applied to the headstock where it meets the neck. Though, there is nothing wrong with using a straight headstock, a lot of builders do.

Next time you go to a guitar shop, you should really take a look at guitars with TOM's as well as those with flat-mount bridges. Seeing, and feeling it in person will give you a far better perspective on what you'll want and need for your own build.

How would I figure out how to recess one properly? Would there still be a neck angle required, or would that be figured out after I figure out how low the bridge will be?
Also, are all TOM bridges "radiused"? I noticed that the one on my Epi has posts that match the 12" radius.
Or maybe I just THOUGHT I saw that.

I like the strings high off the body with a wraparound or a Floyd. It makes the posts longer, putting more force on the body. More pounds per square inch brings more of the the tonal character of the body into the overall sound of the guitar.

I don't think I understand that too well.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

How would I figure out how to recess one properly? Would there still be a neck angle required, or would that be figured out after I figure out how low the bridge will be?
Also, are all TOM bridges "radiused"? I noticed that the one on my Epi has posts that match the 12" radius.
Or maybe I just THOUGHT I saw that.



I don't think I understand that too well.

Well, first decide what bridge EXACTLY you want to use, as well as if you are capable of making a guitar with an angled neck. Then figure if you want to do a carved or bent top, or a flat top. Once you figure these things out, stuff will get much easier.

As for what Tom was saying, I don't really understand it either.

 

[Shenaniganizer]

Dang. I'll have to wait until this weekend, when I visit Guitar Center.
Say I did want to use a recessed TOM, string-thru, flat top.
This thing's also going to be a neck-thru.

How would I figure it out, then?

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Dang. I'll have to wait until this weekend, when I visit Guitar Center.
Say I did want to use a recessed TOM, string-thru, flat top.
This thing's also going to be a neck-thru.

How would I figure it out, then?

Honestly, I'd go for a flat-mount bridge seeing as this is your very first build (I assume) and you're going with a neck-thru joint, seeing as there will be ZERO way to correct an issue with neck angle on a thru-neck guitar. At least any easy way.

Though if you want to do it, it's your choice, and thus, I'm more than happy to explain how I would go about doing it.

First, measure the height of the TOM when it's in it's "full down" position, such as the studs are screwed in all the way. Measure from the top of the saddle, down to the ring around the bushing. Lets say that measure is 1".

Then factor how far off the top of the guitar, at the neck joint, the fretboard will sit.

Then use this calculator to determine what your neck angle would be with the info you have.
Neck Angle Calculator - The Tundra Man Workshop

Now, to figure out how much to recess the trem, keep plugging in numbers to the section titles "Height Of Bridge", until the angle is insignificant, such as .2 degrees, or something like that.

You might find that having a highly recessed TOM on a flat top guitar is just not physically possible without have the fretboard VERY high off the top.

 

[Shenaniganizer]

...

I think I'm just going to go with the flat mount, then. You were right, this is my very first build. And I'm glad you didn't jump on the high horse and tell me that I'm gonna ruin it and waste wood, or something to that effect. Thank you.


Shame, 'cause I'd love to have a Floyd on it. It's gonna be a humbucker/single coil setup (bridge and neck, respectively) and I think I may angle the neck pickup to extend the frets in a slant fashion. A Floyd would just add to its versatility.

Maybe for the next build, when I get more experience.


EDIT: Actually, what would I need to figure out to have something like these?

 

[MaxOfMetal]

...

I think I'm just going to go with the flat mount, then. You were right, this is my very first build. And I'm glad you didn't jump on the high horse and tell me that I'm gonna ruin it and waste wood, or something to that effect. Thank you.


Shame, 'cause I'd love to have a Floyd on it. It's gonna be a humbucker/single coil setup (bridge and neck, respectively) and I think I may angle the neck pickup to extend the frets in a slant fashion. A Floyd would just add to its versatility.

Maybe for the next build, when I get more experience.


EDIT: Actually, what would I need to figure out to have something like these?

You're very welcome bro.

Those bridges are kinda like having individual flat-mount ones, so there isn't much of a worry about neck angle, though they still tend to be a little bit taller than a normal flat-mount. Doing something as simple as making sure the fretboard is a tiny bit higher can make all the difference.

Like I said, get the specs of the hardware you're looking to use, and fill in that calculator until the neck angle it recommends is ridiculously small.

I should also mention, that to a certain degree, these ABM bridges can be recessed as well. Not as much as TOMs, but if you need a couple millimeters of clearance, it can be done.

I will say, if you have access to a decent router, have a fairly working knowledge of adjusting it's plunge, and are willing to make a lot of measurements, adding an FR (or just about any trem) is not going to be ridiculously hard. It'll be even easier in fact if you already have a guitar (preferable with the number of strings as your project, or at least have access to one) with a trem. Of course good trems aren't very cheap, especially 7-string ones.

 

[Shenaniganizer]

Gah.. I'd have to order one of those to actually get the dimensions of one, if that were the case. They're $35 each. :O

Maybe the flat-mount hard-tail is my best option.

I have access to a decent router, and my grandpa and dad know those things very well. I'm absolutely willing to take as many measurements as necessary. I'm in no way going to rush this thing. I think I'm just too scared of messing up, though. I dunno.