How do i get a modern metal sound with the ENGL Invader 150?

[ahjteam]

I've only used Invader once so my recollections of it are a bit hazy, but at least all the Engl heads I've used I thought were pretty easy amps to dial in, which exception of the Screamer because of the funky button configuration thingy, but after you get it down, it's pretty similar to other amps. But like with almost with any amp, start with channel volume and master fairly low, Hi-gain button engaged, channel 3, noise gate engaged, tone knobs at noon, presence up a bit, gain to taste and then adjust according to your guitar and cabinet.

And using emg's or other active pickups and a tubescreamer helps a lot too.

 

[Double A]

You cant get an invader to sound metal??!?! What?!

I was going to say...plug guitar into Invader. Done.

 

[cchtx7]

If it's a brand new amp i would be sure to check the tubes

 

[TMM]

Simple answer is, if you can't get modern metal out of an Invader, you're doing it wrong.

[YouTubevid]IpUuG1npsD8[/MEDIA]

That's an Invader with an MI Megalith.

I haven't played the 150, but with the 100 I played, I preferred it with a boost in front and the amp's gain down a little. It had plenty of gain and tightness without, but the boost gave it a little extra attack in the kids that I liked.

Also, as others have said, the cab may not have been a good choice. I've never heard of THD cabs being used for metal. Additionally, the Invader has a midrange to it that I could see being more cab-picky than something like a 5150.

Edit: attack in the kids... Damn you autocomplete. Mids.

 

[jin]

If they're saying that they probably have it dialed in incorrectly, I've owned both the SE and the Invader and I would not call the Invader any less "metal" than the rest of the Engl line.

To the OP it sounds like you either a) don't get that a tube amp and a practice solid state amp are going to sound VERY different or b) you have it dialed in wrong. Whether it's your expectation of the amp or inability to dial in the tone you're looking for, it's probably not the amp unless someone broke it.

Most likely im dialing it wrong but i have the high gain on. I mean....i have seen clips on youtube of the invader and it mostly sounds pretty good and "metal" enough but i am not lying when i say this particular invader just doesnt give the chugging effect when you play the low strings.

Anyway, besides the tone/gain knobs nothing else BEHIND (rear panel)the amp affects the gain and tone right? For channel 3 how much gain do you usually set before its good?

 

[jin]

I've only used Invader once so my recollections of it are a bit hazy, but at least all the Engl heads I've used I thought were pretty easy amps to dial in, which exception of the Screamer because of the funky button configuration thingy, but after you get it down, it's pretty similar to other amps. But like with almost with any amp, start with channel volume and master fairly low, Hi-gain button engaged, channel 3, noise gate engaged, tone knobs at noon, presence up a bit, gain to taste and then adjust according to your guitar and cabinet.

And using emg's or other active pickups and a tubescreamer helps a lot too.

yes i did that just without the emgs and tubescreamer I mean even if i screw shit up and put everything at noon (with the exception of of the volume) i bet it is still suppose to sound metal already but im not getting it Ill try it AGAIN man

 

[pantera95]

Thats crazy. When i played an invader, i was stuggling to find tones that weren't modern metal sounding? But luckily for me, i love that tone. But dude, are you sure there's not something wrong with the amp? Even with all the settings at 12 O'clock, the amp is still pretty "modern metal" sounding.

 

[jin]

Thats crazy. When i played an invader, i was stuggling to find tones that weren't modern metal sounding? But luckily for me, i love that tone. But dude, are you sure there's not something wrong with the amp? Even with all the settings at 12 O'clock, the amp is still pretty "modern metal" sounding.

Ill try it with a attenuator soon enough to see its potential lol...

 

[Adari]

Ill try it with a attenuator soon enough to see its potential lol...

Have you tried turning DOWN the gain? That will give it more clarity, definition and crunchiness.

 

[petereanima]

Ill try it with a attenuator soon enough to see its potential lol...

Dude...forget an attenuator. Just get there again with YOUR guitar (and not some classic Gibson with low-output pickups hanging around in the store), and if possible hook it up to a more "common" cab.

 

[Stealthdjentstic]

I still can't see low output pickups being too big an issue with an Invader. It's not like it doesn't have loads of gain on tap.

 

[petereanima]

Not if they are your lowoutput pickups. But if you dont know how a guitar usually sounds through your common setup, you cant judge a new amp on it.

I dont know the OP (so please forgive me if I'm misjudging you) - but I really can see that people that are only used to EMG81->Rolandcube with 100% gain, would have a problem when they try a tube amp for the first time, let alone with a more "classic" guitar, and over a 412 thats obviously more suited to fit 30-50W amps...

 

[jin]

Not if they are your lowoutput pickups. But if you dont know how a guitar usually sounds through your common setup, you cant judge a new amp on it.

I dont know the OP (so please forgive me if I'm misjudging you) - but I really can see that people that are only used to EMG81->Rolandcube with 100% gain, would have a problem when they try a tube amp for the first time, let alone with a more "classic" guitar, and over a 412 thats obviously more suited to fit 30-50W amps...

You meant the THD cab? Well i always thought that a 212/412 could handle any sort o fhead but i know that certain cabs have different voicing thats all. You mean i could potentially fuck the amp up if i connect it to a 212/412 that cant handle the head?

 

[petereanima]

Exactly. I mean - most cabs can "handle" most cabs, but there are 2 things to consider, how you can fuck things up:

1) Just as an example: If You have a 120W amp, and only 50W 212 - and you crank the amp, you are running danger blowing your speakers, and when the speakers are blown, your amp doesnt see a load on the output anymore, and then you can also blow the output transformer of your amp. Cab and amp ruined. Thats the technical thing to consider.

2) An amp will ALWAYS only sound as "good" as the cab is. The cab is one of the most important things when its up to sound. The best amp in the world, running over a - lets say - 100,- Behringer 212, will always sound shit. A mediocre amp, over a very good cab, will probably sound awesome. Example: Mesa Boogie over Behringer Cab: shit sound; Bugera Amp over Mesa Cab: pretty awesome sounding to be honest. And its not only between "good" and "bad", there are also combinations (of "good" amp and "Good" cab) that just dont fit together:

For example - My Diezel sounds great, thats why I love it. I think Mesa Cabs are great. But those together arent a good match. I had a Mesa Oversized cab a few times as backline, and it was not possible to dial in the sound how I wanted it to be, it was either too boomy/bass-heavy sounding, or - when i corrected that by turning down bass/deep etc. - to thin. there was no "sweet spot".

Or anotehr example, and a bit more detailled: what we forget very often is, that what we hear as "distortion" or "gain" is too a big part also the amount of "saturation". For example the VHT/Fryette Pitbull - it has SHITLOADS of gain, but reallyreally dry sounding - its completeley different than for example the oversaturated gain-strcuture of an Engl Powerball. So many people would at first think "Wow, that Pitbull hasnt enough gain". Now: Most saturated distortion sounds have an emphasis in the higher-mids and (lower)treble frequencies. And there are cabs, or better said: speakers, that just dont pronounce these frequencies as others would do OR they DO pronounce them, but they only seem to appear when the speakers are pushed. A speaker like for example the Celestion V30, does pronounce this when pushed and therefor always adds some kind of "satuartion" (if you want) to the sound, which we in total than also hear as "gain coming from the amp". So, if you now have an amp, and dial in the gain settings as in your normal live-setting (where you usually (as example) have a V30loaded cab under your amp), but now test on lower bedroom volumes, with a cab that has speakers that either dont pronounce these freqs at all, or would need to be pushed - your are not getting the results you want.

I had once this "custom made" cab as backline, provided by someone of a local band - fat wood, and loaded with Eminence speakers but I dont remember which ones unfortunately. The sound was SO dry and unsaturated, I was at first afraid I had a tube failure or something...tried another cab - everything normal. It really was just the cab with the speakers, that was so EXTREMELY dark sounding (with a complete scoop on the high mids and trebles), that the gain sounded like "crunch rock".

And then there is also the point that factory-new cabs mostly sound shit, speakers need some "break-in" time to sound good.

Long story short: cab not fitting? Instant crap sound.



Oh, and also: A (high power) tube amp on bedroom volume also won't give you as much saturation/"gain" as normal, when its driven on rehearsalroom/stage-volumes. Tubes need to be "pushed" also a bit. But we covered that already, still: An atenuator may rbing the "saturation", but it will also make the amp sound worse imho...I havent heard a single good result with an attenuator yet.

 

[Rook]

Turn it on

I was gunna say 'plug it in' but obviously got beaten to the obvious joke.

 

[Aevolve]

If you can't get a modern metal sound out of a flumping ENGL.. there is no hope.

Oh man he neg repped me..

 

[Valennic]

Maybe the Invader just isn't your amp man. It's not like you HAVE to have an ENGL, you can go for something more chug oriented, like a 6505 or something in that vein. It's not like the invader is the end all be all, if you can't get a tone you like, try a different amp

 

[xPIZZLEx]

It's not like you HAVE to have an ENGL, you can go for something more chug oriented, like a 6505 or something in that vein. It's not like the invader is the end all be all, if you can't get a tone you like, try a different amp

Very true. Engl amps are definitely nice. I've played a Powerball II and love it. I honestly think that Invader has a tube issue since I've never heard an Engl sound bad. If you're going for a Nevermore sound, Jeff Loomis loves his Engls (even though he's played many different amps throughout the years like Kranks, Mesas, Peaveys, etc.) Of course, this is given you're hooking up to the right cab. And not to beat a dead horse, but cabs speakers can make a HUGE difference on how the amp sounds.

The only thing I could recommend if you want to keep that same "modern" Nevermore-esque tone is an Engl Powerball II (which is perhaps a bit more sterile sounding), or if you're not opposed to a little less tightness, a Mesa Roadster. Either way you go, you'd probably be saving over $500 over the Invader 150. Not only that, but 100W is more than enough power.

 

[TRENCHLORD]

I got ?s. If anyone would please tell.

What's the amp scene like in Singapore? Which of the major brands are fairly priced relative to their prices in their country of manufacture? Are the European amps a better deal there than the USA mades?

 

[jin]

I got ?s. If anyone would please tell.

What's the amp scene like in Singapore? Which of the major brands are fairly priced relative to their prices in their country of manufacture? Are the European amps a better deal there than the USA mades?

Im not sure whats the amp scene like but generally things are pretty overpriced and boutique amps even more.Line 6 i think are pretty good for the price here if you are on a budget. Like a pod costs around 500 sgd hah