How do i get a modern metal sound with the ENGL Invader 150?

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jin

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Exactly. I mean - most cabs can "handle" most cabs, but there are 2 things to consider, how you can fuck things up:

1) Just as an example: If You have a 120W amp, and only 50W 212 - and you crank the amp, you are running danger blowing your speakers, and when the speakers are blown, your amp doesnt see a load on the output anymore, and then you can also blow the output transformer of your amp. Cab and amp ruined. Thats the technical thing to consider.

2) An amp will ALWAYS only sound as "good" as the cab is. The cab is one of the most important things when its up to sound. The best amp in the world, running over a - lets say - 100,- Behringer 212, will always sound shit. A mediocre amp, over a very good cab, will probably sound awesome. Example: Mesa Boogie over Behringer Cab: shit sound; Bugera Amp over Mesa Cab: pretty awesome sounding to be honest. And its not only between "good" and "bad", there are also combinations (of "good" amp and "Good" cab) that just dont fit together:

For example - My Diezel sounds great, thats why I love it. I think Mesa Cabs are great. But those together arent a good match. I had a Mesa Oversized cab a few times as backline, and it was not possible to dial in the sound how I wanted it to be, it was either too boomy/bass-heavy sounding, or - when i corrected that by turning down bass/deep etc. - to thin. there was no "sweet spot".

Or anotehr example, and a bit more detailled: what we forget very often is, that what we hear as "distortion" or "gain" is too a big part also the amount of "saturation". For example the VHT/Fryette Pitbull - it has SHITLOADS of gain, but reallyreally dry sounding - its completeley different than for example the oversaturated gain-strcuture of an Engl Powerball. So many people would at first think "Wow, that Pitbull hasnt enough gain". Now: Most saturated distortion sounds have an emphasis in the higher-mids and (lower)treble frequencies. And there are cabs, or better said: speakers, that just dont pronounce these frequencies as others would do OR they DO pronounce them, but they only seem to appear when the speakers are pushed. A speaker like for example the Celestion V30, does pronounce this when pushed and therefor always adds some kind of "satuartion" (if you want) to the sound, which we in total than also hear as "gain coming from the amp". So, if you now have an amp, and dial in the gain settings as in your normal live-setting (where you usually (as example) have a V30loaded cab under your amp), but now test on lower bedroom volumes, with a cab that has speakers that either dont pronounce these freqs at all, or would need to be pushed - your are not getting the results you want.

I had once this "custom made" cab as backline, provided by someone of a local band - fat wood, and loaded with Eminence speakers but I dont remember which ones unfortunately. The sound was SO dry and unsaturated, I was at first afraid I had a tube failure or something...tried another cab - everything normal. It really was just the cab with the speakers, that was so EXTREMELY dark sounding (with a complete scoop on the high mids and trebles), that the gain sounded like "crunch rock".

And then there is also the point that factory-new cabs mostly sound shit, speakers need some "break-in" time to sound good.

Long story short: cab not fitting? Instant crap sound.



Oh, and also: A (high power) tube amp on bedroom volume also won't give you as much saturation/"gain" as normal, when its driven on rehearsalroom/stage-volumes. Tubes need to be "pushed" also a bit. But we covered that already, still: An atenuator may rbing the "saturation", but it will also make the amp sound worse imho...I havent heard a single good result with an attenuator yet.

Well thats a quite of load of things to consider. BTW, its better to crank the master volume up than the channel volume right? Because the master volume is linked to the preamps if im not wrong
 

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TRENCHLORD

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Well thats a quite of load of things to consider. BTW, its better to crank the master volume up than the channel volume right? Because the master volume is linked to the preamps if im not wrong

Not that it's relative to the Engl, but on my recto I turn the channel volume always a little lower than the output, and for low volume the channel barely up at all so I can give the output a little juice.
 

groph

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I've noticed that with the channel volume cranked with the master set low results in a "dryer" tone with a more solid low end. The master cranked with the channel set low, on the other hand, is "hairier" and a bit crunchier and looser. A blend of the two probably puts your tone somewhere in the middle.

An ENGL Invader is capable of modern high gain tones, period. So if you're not getting them I guess it's one of a few factors - something wrong with the head, bad cab matchup, some other faulty piece of gear, or you're like me and don't like the ENGL voicing. All of which except for the last point have been mentioned.
 

Mickey

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Try the forth channel. On my ENGL E670 SE, the 3rd and 4th channels sounds quite different, even though they are both the lead/hi gain channels. It still should do metal easily on channel 3 though. EQ it properly(bass low, treble high, mids to suit, higher volume helps), use the bridge pickup and it should be an absolute beast. The Invader has separate EQ's for each channel so make sure you are using the corresponding EQ for the given channel.
 

Andromalia

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Try the forth channel. On my ENGL E670 SE, the 3rd and 4th channels sounds quite different, even though they are both the lead/hi gain channels. It still should do metal easily on channel 3 though. EQ it properly(bass low, treble high, mids to suit, higher volume helps), use the bridge pickup and it should be an absolute beast. The Invader has separate EQ's for each channel so make sure you are using the corresponding EQ for the given channel.

Use the fourth, Luke ?
 

Samer

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The ENGL Invader has way too much gain IMO, when I'm on channel 3 I have my gain set just bellow 2 (on a scale of 1-10).

I usually use channel 2 for rhythm (with gain set very low), and even that has more gain than a Mesa Rec, and about the same as a 5150.

I am assuming your pre amp tubes went out or something.
 

jin

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The ENGL Invader has way too much gain IMO, when I'm on channel 3 I have my gain set just bellow 2 (on a scale of 1-10).

I usually use channel 2 for rhythm (with gain set very low), and even that has more gain than a Mesa Rec, and about the same as a 5150.

I am assuming your pre amp tubes went out or something.

Then im missing out on something lol. Im no amp expert so i cant tell if anything if faulty inside the head. I hope the guy is not trying to sell me something that is not working properly..btw i take it that most people are using the stock preamptubes that come with the invader
 

dbuk01

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Could be a few things.... 1. Possibly the fact it is 150w and needs to be cranked more to get that level of crunch. 2. Could be the Cab - I run mine with one of the Engl vintage pro 4x12's and tone is noticeably better than when I've had to gig through say a Mesa 4x12 or Framus cabs. 3. Could be your active pickups - I've just switched over to bareknuckle aftermaths as I prefer passive circuits and a lot of my initial problems with the Invader involved the level of gain coming from the p/ups so I couldn't push the amp enough even with the noise gate and a decimator.

I think basically that amp takes quite a while to dial in, I've had mine about 8months and I am still tweaking and finding new sounds that I didn't think I could get - especially in lower tunings and 7/8 string stuff.
 

Larrikin666

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Then im missing out on something lol. Im no amp expert so i cant tell if anything if faulty inside the head. I hope the guy is not trying to sell me something that is not working properly..btw i take it that most people are using the stock preamptubes that come with the invader

Rule #1 of buying a used tube amp:

Do a FULL retube when you get it to avoid headaches like this. It will save you a considerable amount of time and frustration in the long run.
 
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