How fast is fast?

[skitter]

Hi everyone,

Perhaps this is a strange question, but what speed counts as fast? I’m thinking when you’re hitting about 10 notes a seconds you’re starting to get into in shred territory? Is that about right?

Thanks

Skitter

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Shred guitar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[skitter]

Yep I've seen that page before, interesting but it doesn't answer my question. I'm after notes per second...

 

[noUser01]

Yep I've seen that page before, interesting but it doesn't answer my question. I'm after notes per second...

Does it matter?

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, I just think that it shouldn't need any sort of justification. If it sounds fast, it's fast. If it sounds slow, it's slow. NPS is pretty pointless too when you consider anyone can get their NPS up without their playing being clean, or without it being pleasant to listen to. Yngwie has fantastic technique but his NPS isn't nearly as high as a lot of shredders out there. But personally I'd rather listen to Yngwie's technique for 8 hours than someone who can play 16 NPS "kinda" clean. It also sounds very fast because of how clean it is.

Just don't see why it really matters where the threshold of "shred" is. Just play, be happy to play. Always practice and be happy with progress, however little it may be. Being happy with any small amount of progress will make it enjoyable to practice, and then you'll practice more. And then you'll progress more, etc.

Just have fun man. If you wanna learn to shred then practice, don't worry about what qualifies as "shred" because it doesn't matter. It's not like someone will say "He doesn't play that fast" and you'll jump to defend yourself with "Actually, according to some random people on SSO..."

 

[skitter]

I'm just curious that's all... thanks for your answer though.

 

[Aion]

This is such a subjective question. There is no definite answer and it's all relative based on what and who you're listening to. I don't figure out the nps to determine if something is fast, I just listen and go, "yeah he's playing fast." Certain things don't have a scientific, "when this is X it means Y," meaning, they're just how you hear them.

May I ask why you are asking?

 

[noUser01]

I'm just curious that's all... thanks for your answer though.

If that's the case, then the answer is... no. Aion pretty much summed it up. It's entirely subjective, so there is no real answer to that question. I mean you could make arguments, like saying "Here's the first ever "shred" solo, I think if you don't play at least this fast it's not shred" but any argument you make will have to have some form of opinions, just like the above argument where one would have to choose what they consider the first shred solo. There's no science to define the terms "shred" or "fast" in any quantifiable form, so it's going to be entirely subjective.

 

[karjim]

Good God without knowing it you've asked some serious question. In general, we say in Rock Music, above 160bpm, it is fast tempo.
But the real answer is :it all depends of your brain's perception. I've read this article and it's pretty much what you described but with a scientist approach. http://www.icmpc8.umn.edu/proceedings/ICMPC8/PDF/AUTHOR/MP040237.PDF

 

[7stg]

Well Slayer is around 200 bbm or 3.333 bbs and 16th notes or 13.333 notes per second and 8th notes or 6.667 notes per second.
http://olystad.reamedia.no/wp-includes/slayer-angel-of-death-guitar-tab-i15.jpg

Blood red 172 bbm 2.867 bbm lots of 8th notes so 5.733 nps
http://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagepreviews/HL_DDS_940789KFfb3Mu826.png

 

[Maniacal]

I would say playing the Gilbert 3NPS stuff at 120 sixteenth note triplets would be a good goal. It is a goal I use for most of my students who want to play that kind of stuff. 12 notes a second is quite easy to attain, progress usually slows a lot after that.

Really it depends entirely on what you are playing, but 3NPS stuff is a good indicator of actual picking speed in my opinion.

 

[vansinn]

Well, JP does about 5 mil bpm, so there's the standard to adhere to.. (yes, I do like JP)

Speed is of course great for being able to execute fast passages, for sure, but what is fast is IMHO related to the arrangement, so apparent/felt speed may differ from the actual bpm.

What really constitutes "fast" I really don't know, and quite frankly, I care less about it than what makes the arrangement work.
I do care about not getting stress, though..

 

[skitter]

Great thanks guys, some good info here.

 

[ryansuki]

Speaking in terms of what would be theoretically defined as "fast", the Italian abbreviation used to indicate that a piece is to be played fast is Allegro, which indicates that a BPM of between about 120 and 170 is played.

Now, whilst 120bpm is not particularly fast, you can be playing 16ths/32nds, and that's going to be damn fast.

However, in terms of what we perceive as fast, that's a completely different matter.

 

[Patrick Roberge]

Hello All,

It is hard to specify a specific number of notes to consider it as shred. But, in many case it seems fast because the previous phrases were slow and it is so stricking that it seems to be fast. That beeing said, all the anwsers that were giving here are good.

To give a number I would say between 120 to 200 cause it depends of your rhythm (16 notes, 16 notes triplets, etc.)

 

[ace_operations]

16th notes or 16th note triplets at 120 are pretty damn fast as is! If you're talking in the range of 180-220, for most good guitar players, that will be 8th notes.

Here's an example: Andy James' - the wind that shakes the heart, is at 120 bpm. At 2:26, there is a picked pentatonic sequence played in 16th triplets. I've been trying to nail this down, but can only do about 80bpm cleanly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO7V9vNTiyE#t=146

Hope this helps.

 

[cubix]

Fast is when noone can tell what You're really playing and it sounds like gibberish!

 

[Lokasenna]

I define "fast" as "could you pick at this speed all day?" Obviously that varies for different styles of picking, fingers, arpeggios, alternate, etc.

 

[mcsalty]

Let's be real though, if your song is any slower than 300bpm while in half-time you're essentially playing sludge metal

 

[redstone]

Generally most of us will say tremolo picking is fast at 12nps, very fast at 16nps, moderate at 8nps. This corresponds to a physical reality. For most, 16nps is the natural "shiver" speed. When your whole body shivers with cold, it's the same speed everywhere. Then 12 = 75%, 8 = 50%.

The previsibility of sounds and the flow of informations modify our perception of speed. Your avg 180bpm speed metal doesn't sound fast only because the 16ths (bassdrums, guitars) = 12nps. The whole style highlights that physical effort, it gives proper landmarks to identify it as "fast".

 

[PyramidSmasher]

I think when youre hitting 16ths at 140+ at something remotely complex youre fast. By this I mean, not just tremolo picking an open note but actually syncing your fretting hand at this speed. Honestly even 120+ is fast if youre doing something that takes alot on the fret hand.

I personally never think Im a fast player, but thats because I love metal. Whenever I play in front of a music layman, or a pop/rock/blues guitarist and do metal stuff in the 100-120 range they really seem to think Im doing something much faster than I feel about it. So yeah, from a layman perspective youre probably always faster than you think.