Cobhc221
Well-Known Member
i've heard mesa boogie made 3 versions as well has orange, marshall and engl to my knowledge.
is this true?
is this true?
How many types of the Vintage 30s are there?
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HeHasTheJazzHands
Well-Known Member
There's 3 main versions, if I remember correctly.
The standard MiC version, the Marshall OEM V30s, and the Mesa OEM V30s. I don't think the Engl and Orange ones are different, I think they're standard V30s.
The standard MiC version, the Marshall OEM V30s, and the Mesa OEM V30s. I don't think the Engl and Orange ones are different, I think they're standard V30s.
areyna21
Well-Known Member
Found this over at rig talk and supposedly its from freyette. I have read a similar thread and I thought there might be more than five but i can't find that thread right now.
Yes. There are a number of different variations within the V30 family over the years. Currently, the "best" ones being the ones from Mesa Boogie with the T4416 code according to "those in the know." There were slight variations in the construction for example the magnet being cast or cut and the basket being stamped or not. Here's a quote from Steve Fryette:
The 30 in V30 has nothing to do with power handling. But making a distinction between the Mesa version and the off-the-shelf version is legit, even though it has little to do with actual power handling capacity. The rated power handling of the V30 of any version (see below) is 65W.
The Mesa version is OEM. This is the T4416 model, which is an 16 ohm speaker. It is made in England specifically for Mesa. But Mesa didn't specify it that way. From what we were told by Celestion around 1997-8, Celestion changed the model T3904 (16 ohm) V30 design in the early 90s to make it easier and cheaper to produce. Mesa didn't like it and insisted on the original version, which then became an OEM model. The 8 ohm version of the Mesa speaker is the T4335. To get an OEM model from Celestion requires a large order. This speaker was made on a separate production line from the off-the-shelf V30, which as Van Nord says is fizzy and thin sounding by comparison.
There is a third 16 ohm version only used by Marshall - T3897 - which is even brighter.
When we were using Celestion speakers, we found out about the existence of the T4416 which we had purchased from our German distributor at the time and asked Celestion about it. They had claimed that they didn't offer OEM varitions of the V30, but changed their story when we sent them a T4416 "for evaluation". Then a new rep called us, confirmed that there were in fact two separate V30 production lines and agreed to make us a special T Number OEM speaker. After a couple of months back and forth, we placed a large order and requested the special number assignment, at which time they cancelled the order and reneged on the deal. That's when we switched to Eminence. We haven't used Celestions speakers since.
It's not that V30s don't sound good with our amps. It's just that the T4416 sounds better. The T3904 is now made in China and after all these years, the P50E does what we wanted Celestion to do originally - and does it better, in fact - so we don't need Celestions help.
So, if you like V30s, there is nothing about the amp design that will be compromised using a V30. Our amps are not voiced "only" for the P50E. What is optimized for the P50E is the cabinet design. In that, the P50 will perform better in our cab than any others.
And now you know that when you say V30, you could be talking about 5 different speakers - that all sound slightly different:*
T3903 Standard 8 ohm
T3904 Standard 16 ohm
T3987 Marshall OEM 16 ohm
T4416 Mesa OEM 16 ohm
T4335 Mesa OEM 8 ohm
*When you change the impedance rating of the speaker, you also change the inductance of the coil which changes the resonant frequency among other things. So if you have 2 identical amps and 2 identical cabs - one cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers and amp set to 8 next to one loaded with 16 ohm speakers and amp set to 16, they will sound noticably different. The 16 ohm rig will usually sound brighter and deeper.
Personally I prefer the 4416, but not in a Recto 4X12. And therein lies the rabbit hole - you can't accurately compare like speakers in unlike cabs.
Last edited by sfryette; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:04 PM. Reason: Adding more mind numbing detail...
Rig-Talk • View topic - Celestion V30 versions - Do some have a bigger magnet?
Yes. There are a number of different variations within the V30 family over the years. Currently, the "best" ones being the ones from Mesa Boogie with the T4416 code according to "those in the know." There were slight variations in the construction for example the magnet being cast or cut and the basket being stamped or not. Here's a quote from Steve Fryette:
The 30 in V30 has nothing to do with power handling. But making a distinction between the Mesa version and the off-the-shelf version is legit, even though it has little to do with actual power handling capacity. The rated power handling of the V30 of any version (see below) is 65W.
The Mesa version is OEM. This is the T4416 model, which is an 16 ohm speaker. It is made in England specifically for Mesa. But Mesa didn't specify it that way. From what we were told by Celestion around 1997-8, Celestion changed the model T3904 (16 ohm) V30 design in the early 90s to make it easier and cheaper to produce. Mesa didn't like it and insisted on the original version, which then became an OEM model. The 8 ohm version of the Mesa speaker is the T4335. To get an OEM model from Celestion requires a large order. This speaker was made on a separate production line from the off-the-shelf V30, which as Van Nord says is fizzy and thin sounding by comparison.
There is a third 16 ohm version only used by Marshall - T3897 - which is even brighter.
When we were using Celestion speakers, we found out about the existence of the T4416 which we had purchased from our German distributor at the time and asked Celestion about it. They had claimed that they didn't offer OEM varitions of the V30, but changed their story when we sent them a T4416 "for evaluation". Then a new rep called us, confirmed that there were in fact two separate V30 production lines and agreed to make us a special T Number OEM speaker. After a couple of months back and forth, we placed a large order and requested the special number assignment, at which time they cancelled the order and reneged on the deal. That's when we switched to Eminence. We haven't used Celestions speakers since.
It's not that V30s don't sound good with our amps. It's just that the T4416 sounds better. The T3904 is now made in China and after all these years, the P50E does what we wanted Celestion to do originally - and does it better, in fact - so we don't need Celestions help.
So, if you like V30s, there is nothing about the amp design that will be compromised using a V30. Our amps are not voiced "only" for the P50E. What is optimized for the P50E is the cabinet design. In that, the P50 will perform better in our cab than any others.
And now you know that when you say V30, you could be talking about 5 different speakers - that all sound slightly different:*
T3903 Standard 8 ohm
T3904 Standard 16 ohm
T3987 Marshall OEM 16 ohm
T4416 Mesa OEM 16 ohm
T4335 Mesa OEM 8 ohm
*When you change the impedance rating of the speaker, you also change the inductance of the coil which changes the resonant frequency among other things. So if you have 2 identical amps and 2 identical cabs - one cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers and amp set to 8 next to one loaded with 16 ohm speakers and amp set to 16, they will sound noticably different. The 16 ohm rig will usually sound brighter and deeper.
Personally I prefer the 4416, but not in a Recto 4X12. And therein lies the rabbit hole - you can't accurately compare like speakers in unlike cabs.
Last edited by sfryette; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:04 PM. Reason: Adding more mind numbing detail...
Rig-Talk • View topic - Celestion V30 versions - Do some have a bigger magnet?
mnemonic
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The tl;dr of what I have read is that there are three main types: standard celestion v30's that you would get if you bought a v30 from a store, or if you got a v30-loaded cab that wasn't mesa or marshall. These are now made in China, but we're prevoiusly made in England.
The Marshall version (which may be the first version? I forget now) which is slightly brighter. They don't say "30" on the back, they just say "Marshall Vintage." These are made in England.
The Mesa version, which is slightly darker than both the Marshall or OEM Celestion. The markings on the back are the same as the OEM Celestion, it says "Celestion Vintage 30" on the sticker on the magnet. Doesn't mention Mesa at all, you need to check the serial number on the speaker cone, as per the numbers in the post above.
There may or may not have been small runs for other makers out of the English factory. I read Bogner has had v30's made to their spec in the past, though I don't know how much truth there is to this, or what that spec was.
I got an 8 ohm T4335 v30 someone pulled out of a Mesa 212 off eBay and put it in a 112 cab I had lying around. I can confirm it sounds awesome, no ice picky highs that many seem to complain about. I haven't cycled any other v30's through that cab though, so I don't have any first hand experience in how different all these speakers really sound.
Ownhammer has IR's available of all three versions, including the old English-made OEM Celestions, in all different impedences. I've tried out a few and they do all sound noticeably different.
The Marshall version (which may be the first version? I forget now) which is slightly brighter. They don't say "30" on the back, they just say "Marshall Vintage." These are made in England.
The Mesa version, which is slightly darker than both the Marshall or OEM Celestion. The markings on the back are the same as the OEM Celestion, it says "Celestion Vintage 30" on the sticker on the magnet. Doesn't mention Mesa at all, you need to check the serial number on the speaker cone, as per the numbers in the post above.
There may or may not have been small runs for other makers out of the English factory. I read Bogner has had v30's made to their spec in the past, though I don't know how much truth there is to this, or what that spec was.
I got an 8 ohm T4335 v30 someone pulled out of a Mesa 212 off eBay and put it in a 112 cab I had lying around. I can confirm it sounds awesome, no ice picky highs that many seem to complain about. I haven't cycled any other v30's through that cab though, so I don't have any first hand experience in how different all these speakers really sound.
Ownhammer has IR's available of all three versions, including the old English-made OEM Celestions, in all different impedences. I've tried out a few and they do all sound noticeably different.
Great Satan
Hell-o
I don't know why i find this sort of thing fascinating, but i do.
Tanx for the info!
Tanx for the info!
jarledge
Well-Known Member
you also have the Avatar Speakers | Discount Factory Direct Speakers For Musicians Since 1992 hellatone 60 which is a v-30 that has been broken in already.
I think everyone else already covered the rest. I had a 2x12 recto cab with v-30s in it and to me they were the best sounding version. Oddly enough i did end up pulling one of the 30s and sold it on ebay. I put a mojotone black beauty in the recto cab. I had a legacy 4x12 with v-30s that sounded good too but that recto cab was awesome. I got a randall rsl125xl that had two Chinese made vintage 30s and they just weren't the same as the previous v-30s i have played with. They weren't bad but they just sounded like a cheaper speaker.
I think everyone else already covered the rest. I had a 2x12 recto cab with v-30s in it and to me they were the best sounding version. Oddly enough i did end up pulling one of the 30s and sold it on ebay. I put a mojotone black beauty in the recto cab. I had a legacy 4x12 with v-30s that sounded good too but that recto cab was awesome. I got a randall rsl125xl that had two Chinese made vintage 30s and they just weren't the same as the previous v-30s i have played with. They weren't bad but they just sounded like a cheaper speaker.
Cobhc221
Well-Known Member
thanks for the info guys!
