How much "cheating" (re-recording tracks) is going on on Live DVDs?

[RevDrucifer]

Vai did a lot more than a few pinch harmonic over-dubs on Live At Astoria...

That whole middle section in "Bad Horsie" with all the feedback and keyboards...

If you listen to that DVD with headphones, you can hear the edits. He got REALLY close with the guitar tones, but not enough.

I know a lot of vocalist are using auto-tune live, (cough::M. Shadows::Howard Jones::cough), it's so transparent you can't really tell unless you listen close and even then, you'd have to experience it in person (the actual amount of auto-tune, not the T-pain shit) to know it was there.

As for Official Live 101.....I doubt there's any over-dubbing at all, that's fuckin straight up Pantera....they were playing that tight before Phil even joined the band and Phil isn't exactly perfect on there....(well, as a Phil fan, he's fuckin badass...but still not studio perfect). Great band, great tones, perfect delivery.

 

[sunbasket]

"Lamentations" DVD from Opeth sounds absolutely ridiculous, and you can hear plenty of fuckups on it.

+1. I'm quite familiar with that DVD and I LOVE it.

Check out "The Drapery Falls" around 8:00... the last section before they wrap it up to the outro. Going between the "autumn leaves" clean strumming and the double-bass bursts... the second round of double-bass burst is like... x1.5 tempo. HOLY SHIT LOPEZ CHILL OUT DOOD! Honestly though. As a unit though, they stayed so tight.

 

[tr0n]

I bought a Malmsteen DVD years ago called 'Far Beyond The Sun' and it has the Leningrad concert on it and I think the entire thing is overdubbed. It's clear as day, particularly when Malmsteen finishes a run near the nut but his hand is doing some wild vibrato at the 19th fret. In addition to that the crowd noise is overdubbed also, and it's so bad that you can hear it's actually a loop, because the crowd cheers at regular intervals that sound exactly the same.

So that's my review of the DVD, the most terrible live DVD I've ever bought and for the same reason it's still very entertaining.

 

[Jay Jay]

Not that anyone here would really care, but I think on Children of Bodom's live DVD, there's not much if any overdubbing! You can hear Laiho mess up several lines, and the guitar playing isn't perfect at all! But it still made for an amazing DVD and I guess that's why they didn't change much, if anything!

 

[Seven]

Megadeth is known for being ULTRA tight though live; like Mustaine strives for it. Im sure there were slight touchups on the Rude Awakening dvd (only one I have of them) cause it sounds like perfect, but ultimately, you get what you hear from them, which is clear if you watch any youtube cellphone footage and stuff.

Yup, saw them live last year and thought they were great. The Blood In The Water stuff is on Youtube somewhere, they weren't as tight as the BITW DVD when I saw them, maybe it's been touched up like you mention with the Rude Awakening DVD (mainly the vocals if I remember). Either way, my favourite band and awesome live.

 

[cyril v]

And when filming a live DVD that costs thousands of dollars, sometimes those earpieces are there to guide you. /thread.

If I had to guess I'd say it's probably mostly for the monitoring and secondly a lot of bands are playing to a click track these days as well. I really doubt they'd be playing to a backing track.

 

[Bungle]

Not that anyone here would really care, but I think on Children of Bodom's live DVD, there's not much if any overdubbing! You can hear Laiho mess up several lines, and the guitar playing isn't perfect at all! But it still made for an amazing DVD and I guess that's why they didn't change much, if anything!

love that dvd.

Arch Enemy's "Tyrant's of the rising sun" dvd/cd sounds awesome. I haven't spotted any overdubs on it, but I wouldn't rule them out entirely.

 

[TasmanSam]

I'm pretty sure the Unearth DVD is heavily overdubbed, the hand movements don't match the sound most of the time.

I hear the Psycroptic one isn't overdubbed, which makes sense since the vocals sound like ass but is interesting because everything else is near-perfect.

The Nevermore one is probably not dubbed, because Loomis is a beast and Warrel sounds weird at times, but I'm not sure about that one. I'm talking about the audio track for this one though, because the videos are all over the place.

I hate it when they stick together video pieces from many concerts instead of just showing one big ass long concert.

And yeah, I view the dubbing is cheating and feel like I've bee scammed and want my money back when I realize a live album is dubbed.

What do you people think about Behemoth's 2008 live album? It feels like not dubbed to me.

I can vouch for this, those guys are insanely tight live, for example when i saw them play they used an borrowed backline, backup drum kit and they still killed it!

 

[Caveman]

Im pretty sure steve vai lip syncs

 

[kung_fu]

Vai did a lot more than a few pinch harmonic over-dubs on Live At Astoria...

That whole middle section in "Bad Horsie" with all the feedback and keyboards...

If you listen to that DVD with headphones, you can hear the edits. He got REALLY close with the guitar tones, but not enough.

If you listen to the audio commentary track by vai, he mentions all of the overdubs he does.

 

[guitareben]

Well, i am kinda split with overdubs. In small bits, say if your guitar went out of tune, it might be ok. But like, overdubbing whole sections.... well its just on. If I go and buy a live Album/DVD , I buy it to listen to them LIVE. Otherwise it defeats the point.
As I said, I am quite happy with little overdubs, like that one about satch some guy mentioned, because I also want it to sound GOOD. Splitting the signal and then EQing them differently or w/e is also fine cos its still the same stuff being played.
But in the end, it is all there to make it sound better. However, If you buy a live DVD, and are just hearing studio overdubs, then that is not what you payed for is it?


Just a note: What do you guys think of all these live DVD's that have have bits of stuff from multiple days or sound checks as well and stuff (Like Vai live at Aristoria - Has bits from both days, and Vai's new live album has like 5% of it is from sound check (like on tender surrender))

 

[Lon]

Just a note: What do you guys think of all these live DVD's that have have bits of stuff from multiple days or sound checks as well and stuff (Like Vai live at Aristoria - Has bits from both days, and Vai's new live album has like 5% of it is from sound check (like on tender surrender))

I'm twisted about that, in my opinion a live-cd should be the concert from the intro to the last note played or word said without cuts or anything else (just trackmarkers to skip...). with all the fuckups, errors, out of tune guitars and whatnot, for me its more of a emulated concert feel thing so totally polished sound or a new setlist kinda ruins that... but haven't found that cd til ow

 

[AliceAxe]

I'm twisted about that, in my opinion a live-cd should be the concert from the intro to the last note played or word said without cuts or anything else (just trackmarkers to skip...). with all the fuckups, errors, out of tune guitars and whatnot, for me its more of a emulated concert feel thing so totally polished sound or a new setlist kinda ruins that... but haven't found that cd til ow

I agree with you there , that its realy cool when it a whole performance of one show, emulating the feel of acctualy being at a concert.


On the other hand it can be interesting if a DVD has 'highlights' of a tour with the best songs, because then you get to see different venues and such, if its done in a sort of 'tour diary' style with some comentary and backstage footage inbetween. I guess it depends on the band and how they want to produce it.

mabee this next comment is better ment for a thread on video production but on this note I just hate when concert videos are filmed like a studio video with too many close-ups and jumping shots esepcialy where all they do is have close ups of the singer through most of it, awful. I want to see much of the vid of the whole stage and band interaction when performing togther. Thats the magic of a live performance. also any lightshow is missed if not filmed right.

 

[123321123]

I just want live DVDs to sound live. Standing in a crowd, you can hear everything just as clearly with good sound as you can on a CD. The sound is, however, very different. It's still metal, but it doesn't sound like a studio album. The mix of the instruments and how they sound in the space is very different. Live DVDs are too often mixed like a CD. I don't care about overdubs, I want a product that reflects what it's like to be stood there.

Compare 'Alive' to 'Live Shit'. The mixing is completely different. Live Shit isn't very tight by comparison, but it would be entirely possible to make a concert DVD that was that still sounded like music being played in a venue, not music being played in a studio.

There are DVDs that aren't dubbed that sound like studio recordings due to the mixing and they doesn't appeal to me at all. Take 'Alive' using DI guitars. If you're in the audience, you don't hear those. You hear sound coming out of speakers. I'd rather hear those cabs and PA speakers mic'd up. Then again, there are recordings where they've done that which still sound like studio albums.

You could close mic all the cabs and the PA, then do a sine sweep once the venue was full of people, then use the impulse over the mic tracks to simulate the space. You could use the sine sweep as part of the show or something. Who knows. Just SOME attempt at capturing the energy of a live gig.