How much "cheating" (re-recording tracks) is going on on Live DVDs?

[Inazone]

I don't mind reamping or drum sound replacement if the recorded sound quality was poor, but rerecording a part because of sloppy performance isn't cool. If the song turned out bad, either 1) present it as-is or 2) don't include it.

 

[AliceAxe]

A lot of bands use a parallell line directly to a van back stage with the recording gear. Then they re-amp the raw signal later. That way the audio fits to what the hands are doing, but soundwise they can make it sound really good. Actually recording the amp and cabs on stage with a mic is a lot harder to do and make it sound good when mixing the DVD.

Chris Broderick showed how he used the re-amping for recording live shows. One line goes "dry" to recording, one goes with cab sim to his in-ear monitors, and one goes without cab sim to the actual cabinets. So one guitar, three diferent signals and paths.

to me there is a big difference between re-amping and recording a whole different performance over it in a studio.

I'd take a gnarly fan recorded bootleg that captures the event and the moment, over some polish sterile 'professional' recording any day.

my band honor this idea in the studio too. we like to get things in one take and if there is any kind of extraneous noise , one of us says something or whatever , as long as it doesn't sound realy bad or no glaring mistakes, we keep it, it represents the glory and magic of the moment in which it was created. Thats how some of the best stuff is done. Technology is great , very helpful, Ive been recording digital since it was possible, but when it takes the soul out of something, it is being abused IMO.

Why should these band that overdub bother to even record a live performance and then go back and change it? why not just prerecord how you want all your parts then 'pantomime' on stage ala the end of the 'Airheads' movie?

If you can't play what you wrote for your own song live, or are so concerned with people hearing a mistake here and there, and not something you can record and be proud of, then go home and practice instead.

Besides if its so bad it has to be overdubbed, how does that reflect on the quality of the concerts you are putting on that people are paying for?

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

Overdubbing is just the nature of the industry. Although Dragonforce has said they're not going to do any overdubbing on their live album...

 

[NaYoN]

On the In FLames DVD, they fuck up really bad on Episode 666 (someone plays the chorus during the prechorus and all hell breaks loose after that), so they cut that song from the actual list but it's available as a secret bonus track. I like how they handle that one.

Reamping and stuff is fine, but rerecording is definitely not cool.

 

[Gamma362]

this makes me wonder how much over dubbing was used in Nevermore's "The Year Of The Voyager". The sound on that cd is fantastic, and pretty much perfect.

 

[ShadyDavey]

If you take a classic "Live" album like Thin Lizzy's "Live and Dangerous" the vocals, bass and guitars were ALL overdubbed later after they had to touch up the vocals and decided that the end product justified it.

"Strangers in the Night" didn't have any guitar overdubs (according to Schenker and a couple of other sources) because the guitar sound also bled through the drum mic's...but it has to be the rare exception....

I know Satch admitted dropping in a couple of notes because his guitar went massively out of tune on one track (IIRC the live side from Time Machine?)....and Priest's "Unleashed in the East" was at one time referred to as "Unleashed in the Studio" owing to rumours about the percentage of live performance vs overdubs...

It happens. Having your guitar slip out of tune or perhaps some technical glitch affecting a track isn't avoidable and I don't think that degree of overdubbing is a crime......re-doing practically every track is a bit beyond the pale for my tastes.

 

[Antimatter]

Meshuggah doesn't overdub at all from what I can tell. At least on the Nothing video, I haven't seen Alive yet

 

[SnowfaLL]

A lot of bands use a parallell line directly to a van back stage with the recording gear. Then they re-amp the raw signal later. That way the audio fits to what the hands are doing, but soundwise they can make it sound really good. Actually recording the amp and cabs on stage with a mic is a lot harder to do and make it sound good when mixing the DVD.

Chris Broderick showed how he used the re-amping for recording live shows. One line goes "dry" to recording, one goes with cab sim to his in-ear monitors, and one goes without cab sim to the actual cabinets. So one guitar, three diferent signals and paths.

Yep I helped set up a show once that was being recorded live to air for CBC radio (it was the ECMA 2008 Rock show) and it was in a hotel, but they just had a huge recording mixer and shit that was separate from the stage/main sound board, in a totally different room than the audience that was being controlled for CBC radio.. so those kinda shows which they plan to release on dvd/radio, they EQ it different than the monitor EQing for live sound. Because if you think about it, the EQing for getting a good sound live is totally different than what people want to hear on a DVD.

 

[Banana Wedgie]

I suppose it is annoying when they re-record it (with no real reason), unless it is Kreator - recording studio albums live and then dubbing it is such an epic idea!

 

[SerratedSkies]

I don't think that solo is dubbed... I reckon he's a good enough guitarist to be able to pull it off, compare it with Paul Waggoner playing the White Walls solo on the BTBAM dvd. I reckon some people can just do it.

You do know the entire BTBAM DVD is played to a backing track? Also, White Walls has the most fuck ups out of the entire DVD, especially in some of the riffing. You can tell they're tired because it just sounds so sloppy at some points.

 

[Caveman]

I always wondered about this just listening to various live albums. i think guitarists should own up to more of the mistakes they make and who gives a shit if a guitarist cant lay down 100% studio perfection while spinning his head for Giant ass venues. but I think vocalists at least some of the time should overdub. ahahh some live tracks you cant even listen to cause the vocalist kills it so badly.

 

[AcousticMinja]

I would probably not overdbub my music if I ever in my life made a live DVD...(how awesome that would be regardless!) The ONLY ONLY way I would is if I either A. Strained my vocals on one part or B. Missed a pinch or an absolutely ridiculous mistake like hitting the wrong note.
but everything else I would keep normal. The whole point of hearing a band live is to...well, hear them live. Not at the studio. So of course there will be mess ups, we're all human.

 

[Sweetmiracle512]

I'm pretty sure Metallica's S&M has the most overdubbing I've seen on a live dvd at least as far as vocals are concerned. I know they did 2 nights and mashed them all together but James' vocals are 100% perfect....way too perfect....

 

[eventhetrees]

You do know the entire BTBAM DVD is played to a backing track? Also, White Walls has the most fuck ups out of the entire DVD, especially in some of the riffing. You can tell they're tired because it just sounds so sloppy at some points.

That's only samples, not a backing track. They had a lot of ridiculous stuff on that album (elmo samples, accordions, ambient keys etc). Stuff they can't play live obviously, it's all about filling up the sound like the record. Misha says periphery wants to do this too, since they already play to a click, to add all the ambient effects and glitch stuff they do etc.

BTBAM doesn't even hide it, you can see that HUGE fucking mac next to the drummer with the sessions open and you can see it's only the samples. If they had ghost guitar tracks and such it'd be so obvious cause you'd hear them playing off time now and again. White Walls is a tough song and is probably a lot tougher after already playing live for 55+ minutes haha. They don't hide the errors on that DVD, Paul is amazing but i hear him fuck up slides, bends, or just fuck ups in general here and there on the album, he is human haha.

I don't mind re-amping and stuff but hiding errors by re-tracking, well it is cheating the concept of a "live" dvd, cause it actually isn't live at all anymore is it now?

If you're really concerned about how tight your favourite bands are live, go on youtube and watch people's videos from their cellphones and cameras etc. Where they aren't associated with the band, therefore no re-tracking.

For example, the fall of troy one of my favourite bands really shine live cause it's a whole different experience live than on record (one guitar live, multiple guitars on the recording...). Thomas is jumping in the crowd and still playing. One video towards the end of I got this symphony going, jumps in the crowd and keeps playing on his out of tune guitar and even jokes around about it after ward by strumming a chord on his own showing how out of tune he is haha.

 

[All_¥our_Bass]

No overdubbing, fuck-ups and all.

If you wanna re-amp, trigger drum sounds, or re-eq to make it better for at home listening, fine. Just don't mess with the actual playing.

 

[SerratedSkies]

That's only samples, not a backing track. They had a lot of ridiculous stuff on that album (elmo samples, accordions, ambient keys etc). Stuff they can't play live obviously, it's all about filling up the sound like the record. Misha says periphery wants to do this too, since they already play to a click, to add all the ambient effects and glitch stuff they do etc.

BTBAM doesn't even hide it, you can see that HUGE fucking mac next to the drummer with the sessions open and you can see it's only the samples. If they had ghost guitar tracks and such it'd be so obvious cause you'd hear them playing off time now and again. White Walls is a tough song and is probably a lot tougher after already playing live for 55+ minutes haha. They don't hide the errors on that DVD, Paul is amazing but i hear him fuck up slides, bends, or just fuck ups in general here and there on the album, he is human haha.

I don't mind re-amping and stuff but hiding errors by re-tracking, well it is cheating the concept of a "live" dvd, cause it actually isn't live at all anymore is it now?

If you're really concerned about how tight your favourite bands are live, go on youtube and watch people's videos from their cellphones and cameras etc. Where they aren't associated with the band, therefore no re-tracking.

For example, the fall of troy one of my favourite bands really shine live cause it's a whole different experience live than on record (one guitar live, multiple guitars on the recording...). Thomas is jumping in the crowd and still playing. One video towards the end of I got this symphony going, jumps in the crowd and keeps playing on his out of tune guitar and even jokes around about it after ward by strumming a chord on his own showing how out of tune he is haha.

I meant they themselves were playing to a backing track. It's nothing for the crowd to hear, or the DVD for that matter. You can see half of them with earpieces in. That doesn't mean it's coming out of the monitors, or being overdubbed on the DVD. Afterall, it's slightly impossible to be able to keep the tempos of an hour long song exactly perfect. You can tell this is what they did by the transition into and out of track 3. Yes, those are samples. That's very obvious. It's the timing of it all that lets you know they've got something buzzing in their headphones.

 

[Antimatter]

Lots of bands wear earpieces in concert.

 

[SerratedSkies]

Lots of bands wear earpieces in concert.

And when filming a live DVD that costs thousands of dollars, sometimes those earpieces are there to guide you. /thread.

 

[splinter8451]

Dream Theater definitely doesn't mess with the vocal tracks on their most recent Live DVD Chaos in Motion Labrie is off pitch quite a bit throughout the DVD. Still an awesome DVD though

I don't really like when you can tell something has been totally messed with and mastered and dubbed. It takes away the live aspect.

 

[eventhetrees]

I meant they themselves were playing to a backing track. It's nothing for the crowd to hear, or the DVD for that matter. You can see half of them with earpieces in. That doesn't mean it's coming out of the monitors, or being overdubbed on the DVD. Afterall, it's slightly impossible to be able to keep the tempos of an hour long song exactly perfect. You can tell this is what they did by the transition into and out of track 3. Yes, those are samples. That's very obvious. It's the timing of it all that lets you know they've got something buzzing in their headphones.

Yeah that's fine too, especially considering it tends to be real hard to hear everything properly onstage. Earpieces are a great help.