How much presence is "too much"?

[leandroab]

You might be thinking now, "what the fuck is he talking about? Whenever you think is too much is when it's too much!"

Well, consider this. I never managed to sit calmly, without any pressure, with a REAL amp and test the shit out of it. Every time (more like 4 times ahha) it was 5 minutes, in a music store (not in Brazil btw) or a friends house...

So mind you, I have no clue what REAL amps are supposed to sound like. I'm forever stuck with digital amp modeling. So I think I might be adding too much presence to my tones and that's why I simply can't get rid of the fucking fizzy as fuck tones so bound to POD Farm.

I know I can get an album worthy organic tone with the POD Farm, I just believe I'm doing the EQ wrong.

So, what I usually have is the presence around 12:00 to 2:00. How do you guys EQ your presence (regardless of what amp)?

 

[AlexWadeWC]

12:00 to 2:00 is just about right on any amp except maybe a Rectifier i'd go around 11:00.

Have you tried low passing your POD Farm tone? A Low Pass at 10khz can drastically take away a lot of the fizz.

 

[itscurbe]

You might be thinking now, "what the fuck is he talking about? Whenever you think is too much is when it's too much!"

Well, consider this. I never managed to sit calmly, without any pressure, with a REAL amp and test the shit out of it. Every time (more like 4 times ahha) it was 5 minutes, in a music store (not in Brazil btw) or a friends house...

So mind you, I have no clue what REAL amps are supposed to sound like. I'm forever stuck with digital amp modeling. So I think I might be adding too much presence to my tones and that's why I simply can't get rid of the fucking fizzy as fuck tones so bound to POD Farm.

I know I can get an album worthy organic tone with the POD Farm, I just believe I'm doing the EQ wrong.

So, what I usually have is the presence around 12:00 to 2:00. How do you guys EQ your presence (regardless of what amp)?

I was able to get pretty decent tone out of my POD. Using Modern hi gain, doing a mid scoop sort of thing on the EQ and raising the highs and lows works wonders.

 

[leandroab]

12:00 to 2:00 is just about right on any amp except maybe a Rectifier i'd go around 11:00.

Have you tried low passing your POD Farm tone? A Low Pass at 10khz can drastically take away a lot of the fizz.

This is what I usually do:


CUBASE (DAW):
EQ (Highpass 100-120Hz, lowpass 9KHz)

PODFARM:
noise gate, amp, compressor

CUBASE (DAW):
Cabinet simulator (Redwirez Orange w/ v30s)

I mean, it's pretty much what a simple amp recording would be like, right? Except for more mic placements... I might try copying a doubletrack performance and making it a quadtrack performance, changing the two copied R and L performances (chance pan too) mics to some other with more low end and blend it with the previous performances... I don't fucking know...

 

[TRENCHLORD]

On my recs it seems very volume dependant. I think with cooler biased amps it's harder to set anything and just leave it because the tone changes so much when you really start driving it.

 

[Stealthdjentstic]

On my recs it seems very volume dependant. I think with cooler biased amps it's harder to set anything and just leave it because the tone changes so much when you really start driving it.

Yup, the fizz goes away with volume very fast.


Pods are known for their fizz (at least the older ones) so its really just the pods, other amps aren't nearly as much of a bitch.

 

[Kurkkuviipale]

Why don't you ditch the POD Farm and get some Lectos at your service? I bet you won't be struggling with fizz or too much precense.

I think you have a bit to do with your signal chain. The compressor.... well, atleast put it in front of your amp OR in your DAW (I'm not considering POD Farm as a link in the DAW). Broadband compression for guitars is done by those who really think they need it and know exactly how to use it. (I'm not saying I knew how to ) Instead, check out for example Andy Sneap multiband compressor preset.

Also a good way to deal with fizzyness or harsh high end is to start dealng with everything except the area you're dealing with. As you have high passed the lows and low passed the highs, this leaves you with low mids and mids. Once you have mastered EQ'ing and compressing the low mids, start dealing with the high end. High end is a lot harder to EQ anyway. The tone changes a lot when dealing with even little cuts in the high end so you just might want to balance the low end in the relation of high end and then see if you even need to do anything to the high end. (You most probably will have to, but it's gonna be a lot easier)

And to the main question, presence is really dependant of the amp. You can't ask how I dial it regardless of the amp as with for example Bogners I usually have to max it and then again with Rectos I don't have to use that much at all. Keep in mind also that the precense area is not the same with every amp. It varies from 1khz up to 2.5khz. Just turn it around and see what it does to the sound, you can't really know for sure what it will. Another way to get around the precense problem is to use third party applications such as drive pedals or EQ before the amp.

 

[jymellis]

i actually keep presence at +1 or +2 tops. i add about +2 reverb and +1-+3 (or very little) delay.dont add enough delay that it repeats notes. just enough to extend notes a little bit and give that "magical" sound.

 

[Kurkkuviipale]

i actually keep presence at +1 or +2 tops. i add about +2 reverb and +1-+3 (or very little) delay.dont add enough delay that it repeats notes. just enough to extend notes a little bit and give that "magical" sound.

Umm, using reverb or delay is not really usual for modern metal rhythm sound. However, if you're dealing with leads, delay and reverb are both essential.

But in the other hand, for example Devin Townsend uses a lot of reverb in his rhythm tones (AFAIK) and there are no strict rules for a rhythm tone. Naturally. I personally think reverb and delay drains the headroom rhythms so often want to have.

 

[danieluber1337]

Make small notches at harsh frequencies.

 

[jymellis]

Umm, using reverb or delay is not really usual for modern metal rhythm sound. I personally think reverb and delay drains the headroom rhythms so often want to have.

depends on if you have a bass player that just playes the same thing as you or if he actually plays the bass. you want to leave alot of the "heavy" and "rythym headroom" for that bass player.

 

[leandroab]

Why don't you ditch the POD Farm and get some Lectos at your service? I bet you won't be struggling with fizz or too much precense.

I think you have a bit to do with your signal chain. The compressor.... well, atleast put it in front of your amp OR in your DAW (I'm not considering POD Farm as a link in the DAW). Broadband compression for guitars is done by those who really think they need it and know exactly how to use it. (I'm not saying I knew how to ) Instead, check out for example Andy Sneap multiband compressor preset.

Also a good way to deal with fizzyness or harsh high end is to start dealng with everything except the area you're dealing with. As you have high passed the lows and low passed the highs, this leaves you with low mids and mids. Once you have mastered EQ'ing and compressing the low mids, start dealing with the high end. High end is a lot harder to EQ anyway. The tone changes a lot when dealing with even little cuts in the high end so you just might want to balance the low end in the relation of high end and then see if you even need to do anything to the high end. (You most probably will have to, but it's gonna be a lot easier)

And to the main question, presence is really dependant of the amp. You can't ask how I dial it regardless of the amp as with for example Bogners I usually have to max it and then again with Rectos I don't have to use that much at all. Keep in mind also that the precense area is not the same with every amp. It varies from 1khz up to 2.5khz. Just turn it around and see what it does to the sound, you can't really know for sure what it will. Another way to get around the precense problem is to use third party applications such as drive pedals or EQ before the amp.

Make small notches at harsh frequencies.

Excellent post. Rep'd


And I confess I kinda don't know how to set up a compressor properly (guitar, bass, drums, etc)

 

[Kurkkuviipale]

You're welcome!

A good way to learn compressors is to browse presets. Don't copy, but check out what some pros have done to a drum bus compressor and THINK why. Also, you have to know what each knob does before you can actually think why.

 

[danieluber1337]

^This.

 

[Borges]

All depends on what you want and the volume makes a difference too. On my 6505+ I keep presence at around 3 o'clock (8/10) at about 1 volume for recording (fucking loud amp, and sounds practically no different at vol 1 than 3 mic'd up). Makes it cut through much better, but if I cranked the volume outside of my bedroom to say 3 i'd probably have to bring the pres to 1:00 or 6. 6505+'s are a bit different though since there is resonance which kind of balances out more presence with bass, although 6505 series are a bit fizzy to begin with.

I have a POD X3 also and they can be just as a pain in the ass as amps.

 

[Krucifixtion]

I'll throw in my 2 cents, but I use a Pod XT and not Pod Farm. I use the Big Bottom setting for rhythm. I have found that the treble EQ acts kind of strange. It doesn't really add much until you have it set way too high, but if you pull it back to like nothing it sounds way thicker and doesn't really lose treble...so my settings are like this.

L6 Big Bottom

Drive - 12:00 - 1:00
Bass - 11:00
Mid - Maxed
Treble - Zero
Presence - 2:00 - 3:00

With the tube screamer stomp set
Drive 15%
Gain 30%
Tone 75%

Then in my DAW I do a high and low pass. I usually kill off the high's around 9-10k and up. Then a small scoop around 500hz and a small boost around 1-2k. I am using a Redwirez Mesa IR. I usually go for the Royer 121 mic..usually cap edge pretty close in. I also use a Wav's comp.

 

[Taylor2]

Subtractive EQ my friend.


I almost always shelf off anything above 1khz. 1-2 dB seems to help a lot. Low pass at 8-12 kHz, then I usually use notches with tight Q's around 2.5-8kHz.
Tames the nasally quality that plagues amp sims, and tames the fizz.


That being said, I like a dark, loud tone. I prefer to turn down the high end and turn up the volume.

 

[fujitron]

um everything cranked up? is it ok? laney lc15, emg actives, tube screamer maxed out, gain and presence all maxed out... maybe turn 'bright' off and roll back the bass and treble a bit.

i need gain. more gain. mountains of gain.