shotgunn
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying all amps with PCB's suck. Heck, my Triaxis & 2:90 combined has more PCB's than a Chinese sweatshop. I love my RG-100 too.
However, the difference between the two technologies is as clear cut as night and day. PCB's only true advantage is repeatability and consistency. Not to mention they are a PITA to troubleshoot.
I do however really enjoy the Stilleto. The pre 500 (1-499 SN) Dual Rec's are PCB based, but there is a definitive mystical mojo about them that rocks like no other amp. Dual Rec's w/ SN's from 500-2500 are pretty sweet too, but not like the pre 500's.
The 90's marked the dawn of a new era for Mesa. IMO they have never been the same. The Mark series amps were the best amps Mesa ever designed. But they were too expensive to hand wire.
They cut costs sooooo much, but never dropped prices. I refuse to buy any Mesa gear brand new. All of my mesa gear is used from heads to cabs.
Here is a perfect example of how PCB's and PTP hand wiring make a HUGE difference... I know most of us hear are metal heads and LOVE high gain. That being said, most of us also appreciate many other genres and therefor many other types of guitar tone. Anyhoo, if you've ever played a Fender Bassman reisue of the 1959 classic and compared it to the original you will be amazed at how different it sounds and feels.
I have built the 1959 Fender (5F6-A circuit) hand wired by myself and it sounds exactly like the original 1959 circuit. The feel of the amp is spot on with the original in an A/B comparison. Not so with the 'genuine Fender reissue' which happens to be PCB based. I have also built the Fender Champ Amp, a 5W little monster (that I built for my son) and that thing CRANKS!!! It is a toneful little beast. In January I'll be building a Tweed Deluxe and the Marshall 18w head.
The 18w Marshall was actually the last Marshall amp ever to be PTP wired. Again this amps PCB version pales in comparison.
I won't say that PCB's 'suck tone', but they undeniably alter the sound of any given circuit. Guy's that built PCB amps engineered them with PCB's in mind and therefor have better results. Taking a PTP amp and reissuing it as a PCB will never sound as good. Never.
I'm not yelling at you, I am also not trying to prevent you from disagreeing with me. I think we as people need to be allowed to disagree it gives us character and diversity. I hate when people try (I'm not saying you did this) to prevent you from disagreeing. A fact is always a fact regardless of ones opinion. PCB's do not have the same type of tone as PTP amps.
Wow, I just totally derailed my own thread.
sorry.
Thanx,
shotgunn
Here is the meaning of my abreviations in my diagram. Some are pretty obvious while others are not.
Pedals on Pedalboard:
MUTE SPLT = Custom tuner mute/Mag Piezo splitter/True Bypass loop for my Whammy pedal.
WH-1 = Digitech Original Whammy Pedal
TU-2 = Korg TU-2 Tuner pedal
GCP = Ground Control Pro (MIDI Controller)
535-Q = Dunlop 535-Q Wah Wah pedal with selectable range and Q
Pedals in rack:
MXR = MXR 6 band GEQ (the blue ones from the 70's)(I have two)
PADI = LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI
TOCT = my own hand built Tych Brahe Octaver (a la Jimi)(It sounds pretty good)
LPB = Electro Harmonix Linear Power Booster (from 70's)
DS-1 = You should NOT be playing a guitar if you do not know what this is.
AG-Stomp = Yamaha AG-Stomp Acoustic guitar FX
NEO = Neovibe (my hand built knock off of the Univibe (again, a la Jimi)(It sounds, not so good. Will replace with Fultone Mini Deja Vibe)
BMS = Electro Harmonix Bass Micro Synth (modded by shotgunn (that's me) for Expression pedal control of the Stop Frequency paramter, plus a slew of other mods)
BS =Wow, I can't remember, I'll have to check my notes
Rack Gear:
Furman = PL-8 Furman Power Conditioners
GCX = Digital Music Corporation GCX Guitar Audio Switcher (loop switcher)(I have two)
G-Force = TC Electronic G-Force
System Mix Plus = Digital Music Corporation System Mix Plus (guitar line mixer)
Decimator = God's gift to High Gain guitar players. In other words, the greatest noise gate EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PQ-4 = Furman PQ-4 4 band Parametric EQ (a la Dimebag)(I have two)
DBX 166XL = DBX 166XL dual comp/gate
GCX BUF = Guitar Buffer input on front panel of GCX guitar audio switcher
RG-100 = Randall RG-100 I converted this to a rack head (Dimebag's carpeted Randall)
Triaxis = Triaxis
2:90 = Mesa Simul-Class 2:90 Power Amp
Speakers:
Mesa 1x12 = Mesa 1x12" Rectifier cabinets (I also have a 4x12 Rectifier Traditional cabinet. I gig with this one. The 2 1x12's stay in my studio. I have them (soon to be) mounted on my wall with TV mounts.
Dang, after creating that list all I can think of is how I want EVEN MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shotgunn
However, the difference between the two technologies is as clear cut as night and day. PCB's only true advantage is repeatability and consistency. Not to mention they are a PITA to troubleshoot.
I do however really enjoy the Stilleto. The pre 500 (1-499 SN) Dual Rec's are PCB based, but there is a definitive mystical mojo about them that rocks like no other amp. Dual Rec's w/ SN's from 500-2500 are pretty sweet too, but not like the pre 500's.
The 90's marked the dawn of a new era for Mesa. IMO they have never been the same. The Mark series amps were the best amps Mesa ever designed. But they were too expensive to hand wire.
They cut costs sooooo much, but never dropped prices. I refuse to buy any Mesa gear brand new. All of my mesa gear is used from heads to cabs.
Here is a perfect example of how PCB's and PTP hand wiring make a HUGE difference... I know most of us hear are metal heads and LOVE high gain. That being said, most of us also appreciate many other genres and therefor many other types of guitar tone. Anyhoo, if you've ever played a Fender Bassman reisue of the 1959 classic and compared it to the original you will be amazed at how different it sounds and feels.
I have built the 1959 Fender (5F6-A circuit) hand wired by myself and it sounds exactly like the original 1959 circuit. The feel of the amp is spot on with the original in an A/B comparison. Not so with the 'genuine Fender reissue' which happens to be PCB based. I have also built the Fender Champ Amp, a 5W little monster (that I built for my son) and that thing CRANKS!!! It is a toneful little beast. In January I'll be building a Tweed Deluxe and the Marshall 18w head.
The 18w Marshall was actually the last Marshall amp ever to be PTP wired. Again this amps PCB version pales in comparison.
I won't say that PCB's 'suck tone', but they undeniably alter the sound of any given circuit. Guy's that built PCB amps engineered them with PCB's in mind and therefor have better results. Taking a PTP amp and reissuing it as a PCB will never sound as good. Never.
I'm not yelling at you, I am also not trying to prevent you from disagreeing with me. I think we as people need to be allowed to disagree it gives us character and diversity. I hate when people try (I'm not saying you did this) to prevent you from disagreeing. A fact is always a fact regardless of ones opinion. PCB's do not have the same type of tone as PTP amps.
Wow, I just totally derailed my own thread.
sorry.
Thanx,
shotgunn
See, I disagree about PCBs sucking tone. My Budda sounds great as a PCB amp, and the Stiletto Series IIs and Lonestars are fantastic new Mesas. Their bass stuff is great too... the Walkabout series are fantastic-sounding and very loud for such a small package. All PCBs.
I don't buy the PCB versus point-to-point argument. However, I do know that the original Recto design (the one the 2ch Duals were based off of) was originally aimed at George Lynch as a lead amp. It was only when they changed the Recto tone stack to play into the nu-metal/down-tuned craze that things started to go south.
Also, TMI on the toilet thing
Here is the meaning of my abreviations in my diagram. Some are pretty obvious while others are not.
Pedals on Pedalboard:
MUTE SPLT = Custom tuner mute/Mag Piezo splitter/True Bypass loop for my Whammy pedal.
WH-1 = Digitech Original Whammy Pedal
TU-2 = Korg TU-2 Tuner pedal
GCP = Ground Control Pro (MIDI Controller)
535-Q = Dunlop 535-Q Wah Wah pedal with selectable range and Q
Pedals in rack:
MXR = MXR 6 band GEQ (the blue ones from the 70's)(I have two)
PADI = LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI
TOCT = my own hand built Tych Brahe Octaver (a la Jimi)(It sounds pretty good)
LPB = Electro Harmonix Linear Power Booster (from 70's)
DS-1 = You should NOT be playing a guitar if you do not know what this is.
AG-Stomp = Yamaha AG-Stomp Acoustic guitar FX
NEO = Neovibe (my hand built knock off of the Univibe (again, a la Jimi)(It sounds, not so good. Will replace with Fultone Mini Deja Vibe)
BMS = Electro Harmonix Bass Micro Synth (modded by shotgunn (that's me) for Expression pedal control of the Stop Frequency paramter, plus a slew of other mods)
BS =Wow, I can't remember, I'll have to check my notes
Rack Gear:
Furman = PL-8 Furman Power Conditioners
GCX = Digital Music Corporation GCX Guitar Audio Switcher (loop switcher)(I have two)
G-Force = TC Electronic G-Force
System Mix Plus = Digital Music Corporation System Mix Plus (guitar line mixer)
Decimator = God's gift to High Gain guitar players. In other words, the greatest noise gate EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PQ-4 = Furman PQ-4 4 band Parametric EQ (a la Dimebag)(I have two)
DBX 166XL = DBX 166XL dual comp/gate
GCX BUF = Guitar Buffer input on front panel of GCX guitar audio switcher
RG-100 = Randall RG-100 I converted this to a rack head (Dimebag's carpeted Randall)
Triaxis = Triaxis
2:90 = Mesa Simul-Class 2:90 Power Amp
Speakers:
Mesa 1x12 = Mesa 1x12" Rectifier cabinets (I also have a 4x12 Rectifier Traditional cabinet. I gig with this one. The 2 1x12's stay in my studio. I have them (soon to be) mounted on my wall with TV mounts.
Dang, after creating that list all I can think of is how I want EVEN MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shotgunn
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