I want to play my tube amp at low volume - help!

[Gemmeadia]

I just picked up a 6505+ combo amp with some mods (sweet deal!) and I want to play it in my bedroom. It sounds beefy (ive had a 6505+ in the past) but obviously could sound better at low volume. I am planning on getting a TS9 just for tone purposes, but I'm wondering if I should get something like a signal booster to push the amp to sound better at low volumes.

Will I be ok with just the TS9 (or other recommended pedal), or should I look into an additional product to fill my tone at low volumes? Thanks in advance.

 

[KailM]

I just picked up a 6505+ combo amp with some mods (sweet deal!) and I want to play it in my bedroom. It sounds beefy (ive had a 6505+ in the past) but obviously could sound better at low volume. I am planning on getting a TS9 just for tone purposes, but I'm wondering if I should get something like a signal booster to push the amp to sound better at low volumes.

Will I be ok with just the TS9 (or other recommended pedal), or should I look into an additional product to fill my tone at low volumes? Thanks in advance.

Get an MXR 10-band EQ to run in the loop. Then it will sound better at all volumes. But get the ts-9 as well.

 

[JeffKill]

Get an MXR 10-band EQ to run in the loop. Then it will sound better at all volumes. But get the ts-9 as well.

It has nothing to do with low volume, but I would also change out the speaker and tubes asap as well. I swapped the speaker for a WGS HM75, and put TAD 6L6GC-STR power tubes and Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 preamp's and the amp sounds 10x better now. Way more useable mid range and the HM75 handles the low end of drop tunings WAY better.

 

[Gemmeadia]

What will the MXR do other than get rid of bad frequencies? Will it saturate my tone more aside from that? The guy I bought it from just upgraded the tubes to 6L6-GC's so thats good. I havent really gotten a chance to mess with it much, but I can tell it needs at least a TS9 boost.

 

[JeffKill]

What will the MXR do other than get rid of bad frequencies? Will it saturate my tone more aside from that?

I use the volume control on the MXR to drop the overall volume down. This lets you turn the master volume up higher on the amp and retain that tone.

 

[Gemmeadia]

I use the volume control on the MXR to drop the overall volume down. This lets you turn the master volume up higher on the amp and retain that tone.

Ahh thats a great idea!

 

[cardinal]

IME the thing that helped more than anything to get big, beefy tone at low volumes: 4x12 cabinet. All those speakers doesn't mean it's loud. But they will provide low end and mid range that you just cannot get from smaller cabs.

 

[mikah912]

Get a Two Notes Torpedo C.A.B if you're comfortable using impulse responses. Get a Rivera Rockcrusher if you aren't. Either will let you play the tubes at volumes they're meant to be played.

 

[ArtDecade]

Master volume controls how hard you hit the power tubes. Boosting or cutting volume with an the EQ in the effects loop is all pre-phase inverter. If the master is turned down, all you are getting is preamp (and PI) distortion. The power tubes aren't cooking. Get an attenuator.

 

[Elric]

Master volume controls how hard you hit the power tubes. Boosting or cutting volume with an the EQ in the effects loop is all pre-phase inverter. If the master is turned down, all you are getting is preamp (and PI) distortion. The power tubes aren't cooking. Get an attenuator.

Best advice. Tube amps are cool but some people think because they see them on stage or talked up on the net they are the best tool for every situation. They're actually very hit and miss for low volume/bedroom use, if you are interested in power tube contribution to your sound; attenuation/load boxes are the most consistent answer.

 

[JeffKill]

Master volume controls how hard you hit the power tubes. Boosting or cutting volume with an the EQ in the effects loop is all pre-phase inverter. If the master is turned down, all you are getting is preamp (and PI) distortion. The power tubes aren't cooking. Get an attenuator.

An attenuator may be a better option. But the MXR in the loop of my amp still allows play with my master turned up to 2-3 instead of 1-1.5. And when I turn the volume control back up on the MXR, I notice no difference in tone, only volume.

 

[Gemmeadia]

I got this combo amp with the intention of possibly using it live with a 4x12 cab. I'll look into what you guys are talking about and see if that fixes the problem. i appreciate everyone's response!

 

[Insinfier]

I feel like this is something that someone should look into. People continue to recommend attenuators for 5150/6505 amplifiers and low volume bedroom playing but my limited understanding of these amps tells me this wouldn't work.

Some amps rely on power tube saturation for distortion. This means having the amp up to ear-bleeding levels. An attenuator allows you to achieve this at a lower volume.The problem is that the 5150/6505 series relies on its preamp distortion and has a power amp that is designed to be super clean that might end up sounding worse with an attenuator. There is some anecdotal evidence from forum members saying an attenuator only made their tone muddy when used with these amps.

Would an attenuator actually work for this or are these people missing something else that is very basic with great tone and high volume playing (like speakers moving more air)? Someone with more knowledge please chime in.

 

[Gemmeadia]

Im thinking a TS9 will solve some of the issue, so ill get that and give an update

 

[MetalDestroyer]

I feel like this is something that someone should look into. People continue to recommend attenuators for 5150/6505 amplifiers and low volume bedroom playing but my limited understanding of these amps tells me this wouldn't work.

Some amps rely on power tube saturation for distortion. This means having the amp up to ear-bleeding levels. An attenuator allows you to achieve this at a lower volume.The problem is that the 5150/6505 series relies on its preamp distortion and has a power amp that is designed to be super clean that might end up sounding worse with an attenuator. There is some anecdotal evidence from forum members saying an attenuator only made their tone muddy when used with these amps.

Would an attenuator actually work for this or are these people missing something else that is very basic with great tone and high volume playing (like speakers moving more air)? Someone with more knowledge please chime in.

The 5150/6505 series (with the exception of the 2x12 combo) is biased way colder than most other amps. So I would not be surprised at all if the only effect of an attenuator was to muddy the tone. If the power tubes ever distort appreciably, it's toward the top of the volume control. I would guess that the more volume passing through the speakers, the fuller it sounds.

 

[Der JD]

I feel like this is something that someone should look into. People continue to recommend attenuators for 5150/6505 amplifiers and low volume bedroom playing but my limited understanding of these amps tells me this wouldn't work.

Some amps rely on power tube saturation for distortion. This means having the amp up to ear-bleeding levels. An attenuator allows you to achieve this at a lower volume.The problem is that the 5150/6505 series relies on its preamp distortion and has a power amp that is designed to be super clean that might end up sounding worse with an attenuator. There is some anecdotal evidence from forum members saying an attenuator only made their tone muddy when used with these amps.

Would an attenuator actually work for this or are these people missing something else that is very basic with great tone and high volume playing (like speakers moving more air)? Someone with more knowledge please chime in.

A 5150/6505 doesn't need power tube saturation to get good tone. They sound perfectly fine at low volumes as they get their tone almost entirely from the preamp circuit. Do they sound better at higher volumes? Sure, everything does...from amps to home stereos. It's the Fletcher-Munson effect and the fact that the speakers are getting more of a workout.

Even with that said, an attenuator can still be usefull, but only in the sense that it would be easier to control the volume. My 6505 is very touchy. Sneeze on the volume knob and it can go from TV levels to very loud. I use my Torpedo Reload with my 6505 for that purpose. Putting an EQ in the loop can be used to do the same thing and I've tried that with my Boss 7 band. I didn't like it as much as using my Reload. Seems like the Boss colored the tone a bit even with the EQ flat.

 

[cardinal]

Seriously just try a nice, well broken in 4x12. No matter what you feed it, a small speaker cab will sound small in the room. I've played a 6505+ at very very quiet volumes through a Bogner 4x12 and thought it sounded great. But like Der JD said, down that low, the volume control is very touch. Just slightly tapping it will change it from low TV volume to loud home theater volume.

 

[Insinfier]

But like Der JD said, down that low, the volume control is very touch. Just slightly tapping it will change it from low TV volume to loud home theater volume.

This is true for both my 5150 212 and 5150 III.

Thanks for the input, guys.

 

[KailM]

I feel like this is something that someone should look into. People continue to recommend attenuators for 5150/6505 amplifiers and low volume bedroom playing but my limited understanding of these amps tells me this wouldn't work.

Some amps rely on power tube saturation for distortion. This means having the amp up to ear-bleeding levels. An attenuator allows you to achieve this at a lower volume.The problem is that the 5150/6505 series relies on its preamp distortion and has a power amp that is designed to be super clean that might end up sounding worse with an attenuator. There is some anecdotal evidence from forum members saying an attenuator only made their tone muddy when used with these amps.

Would an attenuator actually work for this or are these people missing something else that is very basic with great tone and high volume playing (like speakers moving more air)? Someone with more knowledge please chime in.

You're right on the money. The 5150/6505 series is designed to stay clean in the power section even at VERY loud levels. It's not supposed to get its tone from power-tube saturation. Believe me, I've tried to get power-amp distortion out of mine just to see how it would sound, and my ears began to bleed before it started to overdrive (clean channel, preamp gain way down and post gain WAY up to try to get power-tube distortion). This is why they sound so good for metal riffing -- they stay TIGHT while still having a lot of low-end thump. Power tube distortion is not what you want for that -- in fact, you want to avoid it altogether. Hence, keeping the power tubes clean.

I feel that the phrase "get an attenuator" is thrown out way too often. If the amp in question is a Marshall JCM 800 -- then it's an appropriate suggestion. But they are totally unnecessary on a 5150/6505 and probably detrimental to the overall tone. The 5150/6505 series are perfectly capable of delivering great tones at low volumes -- with a number of other factors considered. The main one is just running a TS or other boost up front. It'll simulate the sound you get by pushing the speakers a little harder unboosted -- without so much volume.

 

[KailM]

What will the MXR do other than get rid of bad frequencies? Will it saturate my tone more aside from that? The guy I bought it from just upgraded the tubes to 6L6-GC's so thats good. I havent really gotten a chance to mess with it much, but I can tell it needs at least a TS9 boost.

For starters, by cutting the highest slider by about 6db, you get rid of the fizz in the distortion, leaving only the "meat."

But I've also found that cutting here, boosting a little there, will gain you a much better tone than what is possible just by dialing the amp's EQ. This applies to all volume levels. The way you would adjust it is up to your preference -- but I've found the 6505+ (at least the 112 version) a little too dominant in the 500hz mids region. I cut that by about 6db on my MXR and instead boost the upper mids a tad and also boost the low-mids (125hz). This results in a thicker sound that still absolutely cuts through a mix but also is much more ballsy -- without that "cocked wah" sound from having too much in the "middle" mids (500hz).

Some people claim to use their MXR 10-band in order to turn the post-gain up but control volume with the EQ's volume slider in order to "retain" that "hot power tube" sound. In my experience, that approach didn't yield any positive results -- as effectively, it's just moving the volume control from one unit to another. And as I mentioned in my above post -- you're still not getting power-tube distortion out of a 5150/6505 at any usable volume. The tone gets better simply because of pushing the SPEAKERS harder. However, one benefit of that method is that it can help tame the sensitivity of the amp's volume knob, so you have a finer control over its range. That said though, I just set my MXR volume slider to zero and continue to use the amp's post gain.